new set of problems

OK, making progress.... (I hope). My dad came over this morning. Within 10 minutes, he cam eto the conclusion that the starter was the route of the problem. I told him that I bench tested it. His immediate response was "thats fine, but that doesnt tell us much..... take it out" He then explained that while the starter may work fine on the bench, it doesnt necesarily mean that it works the same while under a load.
So I took it out and he took it apart. He said the brushes are worn, and the commutator is rough. So, it's giogn to work with him tomorrow to get a face lift.
Hopefully this is the problem.
Jim, you dont nee to come all the way down here to work for pizza. Just come on down, and bring a pizza with ya!

Dean, everythign else on the car seems to work fine. The dash lights, headlights and so on.
 
My dad got the commutator back today. He said it should be fine now. He also picked up 2 sets of brushes. He figured its good to have an extra set, since the 2 sets only cost $3.00. Hopefully tomorrow we can get it back together, and get it started.
 
Yep...

I pulled my starter apart when I had about 150K on Black Tooth and they were about 1/3 worn.

Cleaned it all up and reinstalled them.

If I ever need another set, I'll call to see if I can borrow yours...

HA!

BTW, your Dad is correct about the load... but in most cases, we are not able to get the starter to TURN at all... usually because of some other electrical problem. Your bench test was indeed a GOOD idea, and from what you described so far, the commutator clean-up and brushes may NOT solve your problem. WE ARE NOT THERE THOUGH, so we can only help so much, and only have what you tell us or can show us with fotos.

I hope I'm wrong... but fair warning.

Since he has it all apart... the SOLENOID comes apart relatively easily also. One must unsolder two leads, and then the cap comes off. Reversing the main lugs and contact washer will make for an almost NEW solenoid also. Couldn't hurt doing this overhaul as well. Except for time, its free!
 
GGRRRRRRR........
You were correct Tony. It was not the problem. But it couldnt hurt to try.
THis is the first time throughout these issues that I had to shut the garage door and walk away.
Years ago, my dad told me NEVER work on anything when you are pissed off. When I find myself throwing wrenches across the garage, its time to walk away. So, after throwing a wrench a yelling a few choice words (scaring the hell out of the dog), I turned off the stereo (too bad, it was a good song), turning off the lights, and calling it quits for the night.
Until now, I've been suprisingly unemotional abotu th ewhole process. A bit frustrated but nothing even remotely upsetting.
When I turned teh key the first time, I just got the same "click". Thought I'd hook up the jumper cables to the truck with its new battery. Got the same click. I held the truck at 3k rpm for a couple minutes, and got a fast repeating click. When I disconnected teh jumper cables from the 128, I noticed that the battery had started to leak a bit of acid fromt eh top covers. Did the high revs of the truck overcharge or something? Could this lead some insight to what is going on?
DUe to life, it's now gonna be a few days until I can get back in the garage and give it another go.
 
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Understandable...

I wish I could come out and lend ya a hand...

Jiminy and I have SKYPE and if you can get him to drop by, we could arrange a time and possibly do some online video and talking it through.

I'll send ya a good number to a LOCAL SOCAL pizza house (Vincenzo's)and you can have them deliver a Large Sausage and Mushroom here, and then we can work into the night.

HA!

Hey... I'm serious about Jim and the video though! Do leave it for a day and see what ya can do about getting Jim or Jeremy to come by.
 
Engine?

Jeremy....does the engine turn over?
IE:....using a wrench or socket on the crank pulley, or transmission in gear (manual) and pushing the car back or forward???

The reason I ask.....I had a 76 X way back in 81, and the clutch disk cooked itself to the flywheel and would not disengage. Also, this would rule out whether your engine has seized or not.......not good if it has.:(

Troubleshooting was difficult, and in the end, we had to drop the engine / trans and replace the clutch. (Keep in mind I was a 21 year old that knew absolutely NOTHING about cars at the time)

Something else to check....sorry!

I've been watching your posts right from the start. (pardon the pun)

Lou.
 
Did the high revs of the truck overcharge or something?
Click to expand...

Not likely if the truck is working properly. I would check the voltage at the battery on the truck with the engine running. Rev it up to a few thousand RPM as you watch the voltmeter. Most manufacturers spec 14V as nominal voltage, but I have also seen 14.5 V. If the voltage exceeds 15V as you rev the engine, then the voltage regulator is shot.
 
Have you followed the positive cable from the battery to starter?

Inch by inch? Not familiar with the 128's, however have had the positive cable feeding the starter melt to a header on a Trans Am.

Disconnect from the battery and inspect the full length?
 
OK, movie quote time. Think Gene Wilder from YOung Frankenstein.....































IT IS ALIVE!!!!!!!
So which came first, the chicken or the egg? After gettign pissed off last night, I went out today with a clear head. I crawled under the car to look at wiring, and I saw it....staring at me.... mocking me, I recall it saying something about my mother! This takes the saying "Its always a bad ground" to a new level..... THe neg battery cable was not connected to anything!
Heres the riddle. Did I disconnect it? Or was this the proboem all along? I cannot remember disconnecting it. I feel like an ass if this was the problem all along.
Either way, this was a very educationla process for me, and I thank everyone here profusely for all of the help.
This is gonna bug the crap out of me. Could the ground cable really have just fallen off? If so, I just spent over a week screwing with the alternator, and starter for no reason. At least now the 2 should be happy for quite some time!
When I took it for the test run, I went straight to my dads part store and bought the biggest grounding strap he had. I now know that my battery, while useable, is NOT trust worthy. So that will be fixed soon. I also need to replace cables, and the brown wire fix. After these things are addressed, I will rest easy....well, easier.
Thanks again for the help guys. I love this site. Where else can a novie like myself get this level of help!!!
 
Your dad did it!

He disconnected that wire when you guys removed the starter so he could bring in to have the commutator turned / brushes replaced. Sure, he'll deny everything, but we know better.
 
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Cool!!

We all go through these "I must be dumb-as-a-stump" moments. I swapped out the plug wires on my 86 a couple years ago and killed the car brielfly.

That's all I did, plug wires, nothing else. Afterward the car would crank great, but never fire. I played with that damn thing for hours, replaced the old plug wires, then put the new ones back on. Pulled the dizzy access panel to get a better look, etc, etc.

I finally noticed this connector just hanging out in space:
86_coil_wire.jpg


This wire signals the injectors to pulse and goes here:
86_coil_1.jpg


Very easy to knock off when you reach in behind the engine. The car started right up once I hooked it up. :(

Just be happy it's running. And think of all the nice new parts you have installed, you should be good to go for a few weeks now!! :)
 
And more "I can't believe I did that" stories

1) We've probably all had the experience of knocking the red starter solenoid wire off its clip when messing around that side of the engine. That one is particularly insidious because it's easy to do, hard to see, and hard to think about when you haven't gone anywhere near the starting system.

2) Once, after an hour trying to diagnose a cranks-but-won't-start problem, I reached for my pocketknife and found the distributor rotor in my pocket.

3) No... I won't talk about that one...
 
I did that with my Spider! We all have those moments don't we! (red wire on starter solenoid)
 
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Hmm, the lovelt red wire to the solenoid. When I bought my spider I drove it from Philly to St. Louis after it had been sittign for 5 years. We stopped at a bed and breakfast 1/2 way home for the night. THe followng morning, I did the exact same thing while checking fluids and such.
As for the rotor, well..... never doen that one. THat is a good one though. It sounds just like somehing I would do!
 
Follow up for those still watching this thread. I drove it for a few hours today without problems!
I installed the engine ground strap. I put it running from the motor mont, across the dog bone, and grounded at teh body.
The charging system is definately working. When stopped, and I rev eth motor, I see the lights gettign brighter. Also, when running above 4k, the voltmeter gauge is showing right at 14 volts.
Car seems very happy. Now I eed to find a small woodland creature to sacrafice.
 
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