Pininfarina and Bertone

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

Xweb members who have owned both X1/9s and Scorpions/Montecarlos have owned products turned out by arguably Italy's two most prominent coachbuilders of the latter half of the 20th Century.

Based only on these two cars, would you folks care to compare and contrast the design, engineering, and build quality of the two carrozziere?

 

[Mark]

No comparison, based on the two cars. The X1/9 is vastly superior in terms of design and engineering. Just look at the packaging. But I think this has more to do with Fiat than the two coach builders. The Scorpion was never fully developed before being put into production.

Build quality of the Scorpion is more along the lines of a hand build exotic whereas the X1/9 is more production car.

Xweb members who have owned both X1/9s and Scorpions/Montecarlos have owned products turned out by arguably Italy's two most prominent coachbuilders of the latter half of the 20th Century.

Based only on these two cars, would you folks care to compare and contrast the design, engineering, and build quality of the two carrozziere?

 

[BEEK]

my .02

the scorpion was an ill conceived rendition of a great car (montecarlo). the montecarlo is a very well built car, good power and very comparable handling with the x1/9. they basically share the same suspension, except the scorpions track is wider, it has factory sway bars, it has a 2.0 dohc 130hp power plant. im not knocking the x1/9 at all, it is the most fun i have ever had driving a streetable gocart. as built it is just lacking the power to move it into the same realm as the montecarlo. the scorpion on the other hand, as built is a pig! the heavy bumpers added on the ends, the raised ride height , the 83hp emissions laden engine. the x blows that car away. i have owned 5 scorpions in my life, still have 3. i have owned 2 x1/9's one 83 bertone and a 78, 1300 carbed one. while both were fun, the carbed one was just too slow, the extra 10hp from the efi car was better, but stock still lacked something. my scorpions have had built 2.0 high compression, big valve, alquatti cammed, dual carbed, and ansa 4 tip exhaust. they ran very well. but was not delivered that way from the factory. as for design, i like the pinninfarina car a slight bit better, but thats personal opinion. the bertone bodied cars are great works of art too. the bertones interrior is more "production car like" , where the scorpion is more exotic looking. i think the x sits better in my opinion.

 

[budgetzagato]

I'm sort of a newbie...

I only had my Bertone X1/9 for about 6 years and have only had my Scorpion for one year. So my experience is limited, and limited to just these two cars.

I'll make some assumptions about what you mean by your terms design, engineering and build quality.

For the cars' design, they are similar yet very different. The X is very much a distillation of the wedge concept popular when it was built. a very active shape that suggests movement. Long overhang in front is another element that helps that look. The Scorpion on the other hand is more of a truncated wedge design, where the points are cut off which reigns in the movement and grounds the car. The angles also help with this, as does the black band styling. The interior of the Scorpion is very styled, where the X seems more workmanlike. I personally prefer the latter.

I think the engineering of the X is superior, the execution of the interior and stowage is far superior to the Scorpion, which has a lot of wasted space. I'm not qualified to speak to suspension design but I think they're pretty equal. The Scorpion is a bigger car, about 6" wider is all, which is more comfortable for someone my size and feels that much roomier. I never owned an early X but they seem to have a similar feel. Anyway the Scorpion benefits from the TC power plant, but my understanding is that the car was actually designed for a V6. Any deficiencies the Scorpion suffers in handling it makes up in power.

As others have said the build quality of the X is very much appropriate for a production car, where the Scorpion is barely in that league. But it doesn't bother me too much. Parts are more scarce. Welds are not as nice, a lot of tack-welding is visible with left over wire-feed wire here and there, where the X was more robotic and uses more spot welds and sealer which hides a lot of what is visible on the Scorpion. The Scorpion suffers from some pretty poor decisions notably the front lid vents, where metal sandwiches porous foam which leads to moisture and rust problems.

If the Scorpion were sold here longer and longer overall, I have no doubt it would have eventually become a very nice car. As it is, I like mine a lot and am happy with it. I have had it on the track and done well and enjoyed it, and for a driver it is much more responsive than my Bertone was. The Bertone had a lot of creature comforts like better ventilation and heat, A/C, overall better electrics. The X hard top is comforting and quieter than the cloth top of the Scorpion.

Now that Lancia is going away I wonder how that will affect prices and other aspects of Lancia ownership.