Hypothetically speaking of course, if one were looking for a Beta where does this one fall in terms of pricing?
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2718220306.html
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2718220306.html
Question on values
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fiatmonkey
Tim Hoover
True maybe however for the California car owners as we all know, 75 and earlier cars are sort of like gold here seeing that they (at least currently) do not need to pass an emissions test. I personally don't know how rare these cars are as I don't follow them all that much, but I am sure other California Lancia/Fiat owners might know.
A crap shoot
A while back on another forum I am on there was a rant on the value of our cars VS other makes and to what is actually keeping the prices down. Basically it boils down to if you are happy with what you paid then you got a good deal. Having said that, it does bring up a good topic for debate. Why is that car on this thread over priced? You compare that car to others of the same vintage and you get a big bang for the buck. What is keeping the price of our cars down is actually simple.... US! (our community) The X1/9, Scorpion, Bata coupe ect are actually undervalued and for no real other reason accept for we are keeping it that way. It's a nice example of a Beta coupe, if I had the money I would consider it.
A while back on another forum I am on there was a rant on the value of our cars VS other makes and to what is actually keeping the prices down. Basically it boils down to if you are happy with what you paid then you got a good deal. Having said that, it does bring up a good topic for debate. Why is that car on this thread over priced? You compare that car to others of the same vintage and you get a big bang for the buck. What is keeping the price of our cars down is actually simple.... US! (our community) The X1/9, Scorpion, Bata coupe ect are actually undervalued and for no real other reason accept for we are keeping it that way. It's a nice example of a Beta coupe, if I had the money I would consider it.
bb4re
86X 22,000 miles
Beta Coupes, even the very limited production Zagato...
...just don't go for much. They made less than 6000 Zagatos and they will very rarely sell for more than $4000, even in very nice condition. The Coupe was more of the entry level car that was offered. I always liked the HPE (wagon) style car the most. The brown color will also almost always hurt the resale of any car. The styling isn't to everyones liking (I like them a lot). We have also seen that even the nicest X1/9's cannot seem to pull much $$$. The consumer sets the value of the car...not the owner. Auctions generally will prove what a car is really "worth".
...just don't go for much. They made less than 6000 Zagatos and they will very rarely sell for more than $4000, even in very nice condition. The Coupe was more of the entry level car that was offered. I always liked the HPE (wagon) style car the most. The brown color will also almost always hurt the resale of any car. The styling isn't to everyones liking (I like them a lot). We have also seen that even the nicest X1/9's cannot seem to pull much $$$. The consumer sets the value of the car...not the owner. Auctions generally will prove what a car is really "worth".
bb4re
86X 22,000 miles
JJay...
...I guess I don't get your humor.
A Beta is, what a Beta is (I like them, but can't account for the rest of the planet)...AND... We have seen what "brown" sells for. YOU showed us that, just last month on a pretty nice X1/9. That car would've went for another $1000 in a different hue. You should quit sniffing the elmers glue and chewing on those crayons. :dead::dance2:
...I guess I don't get your humor.
A Beta is, what a Beta is (I like them, but can't account for the rest of the planet)...AND... We have seen what "brown" sells for. YOU showed us that, just last month on a pretty nice X1/9. That car would've went for another $1000 in a different hue. You should quit sniffing the elmers glue and chewing on those crayons. :dead::dance2:
Mark
FIATFREAK
bb4re
86X 22,000 miles
I would be willing to bet that your beautiful Special Edition Zagato
...was the only one to sell north of $5000 in the past few years. I had a pretty darn nice one sell for $4000 a few months back. I watch all of the auction sites and selling sites pretty religiously, and any Zagatos looking for more than $3K usually sit for a long, long time. Beta Coupes are usually a couple thousand less than Zagatos. Allan Siebens HPE is priced nicely. I would think his should sell. The HPE has great lines, IMHO.
Buyers for these cars are pretty limited.
...was the only one to sell north of $5000 in the past few years. I had a pretty darn nice one sell for $4000 a few months back. I watch all of the auction sites and selling sites pretty religiously, and any Zagatos looking for more than $3K usually sit for a long, long time. Beta Coupes are usually a couple thousand less than Zagatos. Allan Siebens HPE is priced nicely. I would think his should sell. The HPE has great lines, IMHO.
Buyers for these cars are pretty limited.
roadbox
True Classic
I've read this before and it makes no sense to me. Perhaps you can explain.
I also own a British car (check my sig line) and I see the same thing with MGBs and other higher volume/low cost vintage Brit cars. The only ones complaining about low values are people selling them. If they were actual collector cars, which they are not, they wouldn't be affordable and we couldn't buy them! I don't see the problem: I get the car I want and I don't have to fight too many people for it. When and if I sell, the difference between what I paid for/put into the car and the sale price is what it cost for me to have a great time in a unique vehicle.
Let's face it, if you buy any consumer level vintage car (not collector grade) and plan to recover what you will spend on it, you simply should not do it; it's a bad plan. Seriously. Take the family to Disneyland or on a cruise instead, you'll be way less dispointed in how it turns out. There is an old saying about vintage cars which goes something like, "every 5-10 years, you re-buy the car." I've found this to be true if you are really taking good care of the car. Much of the cost of owning a vintage car is "usery," like paying for a nice vaction, you never recover it because you don't get a refund on "fun money" spent.
John O.
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rturchan
Baja Bob
One more thing
John makes a lot of good points.
I would add that you should never buy junk when buying a cheap car because to restore cheap cars is ALWAYS a looser. Buy the best you can find and you will be better off. To properly restore any car is well north of $20,000, probably 35k to ???. This is minimum price and probably cutting some corners. Hi-line cars expect well over 100k.
Bob
John makes a lot of good points.
I would add that you should never buy junk when buying a cheap car because to restore cheap cars is ALWAYS a looser. Buy the best you can find and you will be better off. To properly restore any car is well north of $20,000, probably 35k to ???. This is minimum price and probably cutting some corners. Hi-line cars expect well over 100k.
Bob
allansieben
X1/9 Time
Odd Man Out
Back in the day when FIAT and Lancia had dealerships spanning the continent, FIAT was the prominant figure for affordable Italian automobiles. For those FIAT dealers who participated in representing Lancia, most had miniscule inventory at best. Here in Canada, you might have seen two Beta coupes, and maybe a Scorpion and the odd HPE at any given time on a showroom floor. Most were special order is what I understand. They were slow sellers when new, so its no surprize that I don't have several people jumping at the opportunity to purchase my HPE.
According to Brian Long's book "A Collector Guide: Lancia Beta", there were only 152 USA bound HPE's built between 1978 and 1979.
Talk about low production values! These cars were indeed the "odd man out".
1st series Beta Coupes for 1975 for North America was 3,722 units, while 2nd series from end of 1975 to early 1978 was an astonishing 4,290 coupes! Then another 345 units for the balance of 1978 (these were the last of the 1800cc engines).
From 1979 to 1981 there were another 2,111 units delivered to North America with the 2 Litre engine. I suspect that many of the cars in 79 through mid 1980 were carbed, while much like the changes FIAT did with fuel injecting the X1/9 and Spider in say mid 1980, Lancia followed suit. The last of all the NA bound Beta cars were fuel injected. Total Beta Coupe production for North America was 10,468 units! HPE comes in at 1,590 units for NA. Quite a contast!
Lancia's are special cars. Rare, yes. But if you can find a very clean car, they're worth holding onto. As far as values go? I agree with what has already been stated. Like anything else, values are affected by economic conditions also! It's all about disposable income in an uncertain economy. Who has it? Who wants to buy a collector car when the roof of your house needs to be replaced or your kid needs braces? It's all about priorities in where you wish to spend your money. It's a good bet that the majority of middle class income earners are in "safe mode" and have been that way since the crash of 2008.
We have all witnessed the craziness of Barrett-Jackson collector car values pre-2008 right? So where are those big spenders now? Even the wealthy are in safe mode. We've seen old car values plummet and many people have had to sell their "investments" at a loss!
Where am I going with this? I don't know! LOL
Oh yes, the Beta series of FIAT owned Lancia are the odd man out.
The build quality appears to be superior to the FIAT counterpart, the feel of the way the door closes and overall appearence of the fit and finish.These are subtle indicators of a superior build. Lancia's were sold as an upgrade to the FIAT afterall! But by todays standards??? Yikes!!! Today's upgrades are head and shoulders above any counterpart in the same auto family. Case in point: AUDI /Volkswagen, Lexus/Toyota, and Acura/Honda just to name a few.
Any way you slice it, the Lancia brand is a great choice for the Italian car afficionado. They're different, and attract a lot of fanfare.I suppose that's one good thing about being the odd man out.
Merry Christmas to my Xweb friends!!!
Allan
Back in the day when FIAT and Lancia had dealerships spanning the continent, FIAT was the prominant figure for affordable Italian automobiles. For those FIAT dealers who participated in representing Lancia, most had miniscule inventory at best. Here in Canada, you might have seen two Beta coupes, and maybe a Scorpion and the odd HPE at any given time on a showroom floor. Most were special order is what I understand. They were slow sellers when new, so its no surprize that I don't have several people jumping at the opportunity to purchase my HPE.
According to Brian Long's book "A Collector Guide: Lancia Beta", there were only 152 USA bound HPE's built between 1978 and 1979.
Talk about low production values! These cars were indeed the "odd man out".
1st series Beta Coupes for 1975 for North America was 3,722 units, while 2nd series from end of 1975 to early 1978 was an astonishing 4,290 coupes! Then another 345 units for the balance of 1978 (these were the last of the 1800cc engines).
From 1979 to 1981 there were another 2,111 units delivered to North America with the 2 Litre engine. I suspect that many of the cars in 79 through mid 1980 were carbed, while much like the changes FIAT did with fuel injecting the X1/9 and Spider in say mid 1980, Lancia followed suit. The last of all the NA bound Beta cars were fuel injected. Total Beta Coupe production for North America was 10,468 units! HPE comes in at 1,590 units for NA. Quite a contast!
Lancia's are special cars. Rare, yes. But if you can find a very clean car, they're worth holding onto. As far as values go? I agree with what has already been stated. Like anything else, values are affected by economic conditions also! It's all about disposable income in an uncertain economy. Who has it? Who wants to buy a collector car when the roof of your house needs to be replaced or your kid needs braces? It's all about priorities in where you wish to spend your money. It's a good bet that the majority of middle class income earners are in "safe mode" and have been that way since the crash of 2008.
We have all witnessed the craziness of Barrett-Jackson collector car values pre-2008 right? So where are those big spenders now? Even the wealthy are in safe mode. We've seen old car values plummet and many people have had to sell their "investments" at a loss!
Where am I going with this? I don't know! LOL
Oh yes, the Beta series of FIAT owned Lancia are the odd man out.
The build quality appears to be superior to the FIAT counterpart, the feel of the way the door closes and overall appearence of the fit and finish.These are subtle indicators of a superior build. Lancia's were sold as an upgrade to the FIAT afterall! But by todays standards??? Yikes!!! Today's upgrades are head and shoulders above any counterpart in the same auto family. Case in point: AUDI /Volkswagen, Lexus/Toyota, and Acura/Honda just to name a few.
Any way you slice it, the Lancia brand is a great choice for the Italian car afficionado. They're different, and attract a lot of fanfare.I suppose that's one good thing about being the odd man out.
Merry Christmas to my Xweb friends!!!
Allan
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