Replacement Head

[daving]

Hello all,

was wondering if you could help me out with my project.
I got a Fiat-x19 that I believe is a 1986. The carfax says it's 86 and so does the DMV, but it seems as if it might be an 85.

The original owner said he thinks it's an 85.

Anyway it has a cracked cylinder head, and I am trying to replace it. But it's confusing.

We pulled out 10-headbolts.
But pictures of the "10-bolt" (1981-85) look identical to pictures of the "14-bolt" model, 86+.
There are 10 headbolts and four allen bolts on top (that don't go thru the head, or help hold it on) So I am wondering if those four allen-bolts make it a 14-bolt model?

The socket size for the bolts is 19mm.

Here is a 14-bolt I'm looking at buying:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channelad...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=82804&c=846067&i=250205819

and a 10-bolt:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channelad...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=82804&c=846067&i=228942556

From what a I can tell, the 10-bolt and 14-bolt models have the same number of holes on their surface... what exactly is the difference?

Anyhelp determining what year / head I should get would be appreciated, thanks

-DaVinG

 

[ng_randolph]

Have a peek at this 10 bolt head and this 14 bolt head and it should be easier to see the difference. The 10 bolt head you linked to did not have very good photos associated with it, so some of the passages in the head looked a bit like the 4 extra mounting holes.

 

[Black-Tooth]

I'm not sure which WORLD...

... yur coming from... as we have had at least ONE alien here before, but he was from another galaxy... much like your engine, I would expect.

As parts become scare around here... I can only imagine how difficult they are to find on MARS. But like the Cubans (who have been cut off from from importing GM parts for their Chevys), it appears your PO was a very resourceful life form.

I betcha he used a 14 bolt head on a 10 bolt engine... and thinking about it... it oughtta work. In fact, it oughtta work the other way around also.

As for exactly WHAT year engine, or car body shell you have... I would suggest that you should not worry your far superior little mind about it... as with just this illustration, it is NOT a Bloomington Gold candidate for a Concours d' Elegance show.

I would indeed pull the head and verify you have a 10 bolt or 14 bolt block and use the appropriate head though. Just makes things a bit less complicated.

Too bad ya don't live closer on this planet... as there are many of us simple-minded Earthlings that are very supportive and can be lured into giving assistance with some morsals of food and liquid refreshment. (I personally prefer Bud Light and Sausage and Mushrooms on my Pizza...)

And man... I bet the shipping costs to Australia are nothing compared to what you haveta put up with!~

Do keep us posted with our progress and what ya find... Fotos would peak our interest also!

 

[Rupunzell]

Year is not all that important as there are many variations and "Stuff" that previous owners might have done to your X. Keep in mind there have been well over 6 million of these engines produced with numerious variations.

Many FIAT engine parts are interchangeable between years and engine displacement, ie 1300cc cylinder head on a 1500cc block.

What we need are some good, close up images of the cylinder head, top, bottom and side.

Does "Lancia" appear on the side of the engine block?

Bernice

Hello all,

was wondering if you could help me out with my project.
I got a Fiat-x19 that I believe is a 1986. The carfax says it's 86 and so does the DMV, but it seems as if it might be an 85.

The original owner said he thinks it's an 85.

Anyway it has a cracked cylinder head, and I am trying to replace it. But it's confusing.

We pulled out 10-headbolts.
But pictures of the "10-bolt" (1981-85) look identical to pictures of the "14-bolt" model, 86+.
There are 10 headbolts and four allen bolts on top (that don't go thru the head, or help hold it on) So I am wondering if those four allen-bolts make it a 14-bolt model?

The socket size for the bolts is 19mm.

Here is a 14-bolt I'm looking at buying:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channelad...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=82804&c=846067&i=250205819

and a 10-bolt:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channelad...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=82804&c=846067&i=228942556

From what a I can tell, the 10-bolt and 14-bolt models have the same number of holes on their surface... what exactly is the difference?

Anyhelp determining what year / head I should get would be appreciated, thanks

-DaVinG

 

[daving]

Thanks for your quick replies.

The engine does say Lancia on the side.

I'm pretty sure no work has ever been done to this x19. It was a commuter car in New York, then in California. I definitely know the last owner didn't do anything. He thought the distributor cap was to blame.

The engine and engine compartment had years worth of oil build-up. There wasn't a single bolt that was visible before digging for it. So, I think this is the first time it's ever been opened. The car wasn't really taken care of or modified in any noticeable way, thus I think it's all stock.

I do see the four extra holes, and mine doesn't have them, so it is definitely a 10-bolt.

Pix!

 

[Rupunzell]

That is a 10 bolt, M10 head bolt, EFI head...

Mayo yes, are you sure the head is cracked? Has this cylinder head been pressure tested by a specialty cylinder head shop?

Some verification of what caused the mayo needs to be done before installing another cylinder head of the real cause of the mayo might rear up again..

Bernice

Thanks for your quick replies.

The engine does say Lancia on the side.

I'm pretty sure no work has ever been done to this x19. It was a commuter car in New York, then in California. I definitely know the last owner didn't do anything. He thought the distributor cap was to blame.

The engine and engine compartment had years worth of oil build-up. There wasn't a single bolt that was visible before digging for it. So, I think this is the first time it's ever been opened. The car wasn't really taken care of or modified in any noticeable way, thus I think it's all stock.

I do see the four extra holes, and mine doesn't have them, so it is definitely a 10-bolt.

Pix!

 

[Black-Tooth]

Sure looks like that head came with the car...

Doesn't appear to have been replaced...

The factory was always resourceful and tended not to waste anything... which is evidenced epecially in the years of 79 - 81. But by the time your was built, they USUALLY did not carry over parts and mix them up.

But... it definately is a 10 bolt... so no worries...

BTW... did you have the head magnafluxed or can you acually see the crack? Usually we find only blown gaskets...

 

[daving]

As far as pressure testing, my friend (/ professional mechanic) brought over his pressure tester, and each cylinder holds roughly 110psi. I believe it should be around 160 minimum.

My friend cleaned the head and found the crack. It is visible, though my camera is too crappy to be able to take a pic clearly of it. There actually seems to be two.

I already got an complete engine gasket set, to reseal the entire engine, so, just waiting on a new head.

I'll keep you guys posted if / when I get it working.

-DaVinG

 

[Black-Tooth]

Hmmmm...

Your mechanic friend... MAY have missed something here...

A compression test, netting 110 pounds is NOT uncommon if the throttle was not HELD WIDE OPEN during the test. A compression test netting 110 pound PER cylinder (and holding?) would seem to indicated there is NO compromise of either the head gasket or the head itself, relative to the cylinders.

That is NOT to say that the head is not cracked and coolant is getting into the oil... (which it obviously is) but it would appear it is NOT getting in via the cylinder, which is USUALLY the case.

I said all is 'cause it seems a bit strange.

Secondly... when you retest the compression after its back together, insure the throttle is wide open and do look for pressures that are again relatively EVEN between cylinders and in the 145 - 155 range. You'll then be "good to go".

OH... and lastly... be sure to COVER the extra hole in the thermostat housing so that coolant doesn't escape into the exhaust system, and possibly back into the engine. More details if needed. (Going back to my suspicions in the first paragraph... I sure hope this wasn't the problem in the first place... which now raises the question if the cracks you found are actually "through-cracks". I sure wish I could touch-feel-test for sure... maybe you could get a second professional opinion if I raised any doubts in YOUR mind. I'm not trying to CREATE more problems for ya... just hate ta see ya put on a new head and find that the old head was NOT the problem based on that compression test.)

 

[daving]

Well in same cases the gage would go as high as 125ish, but never hold. Over the course of 5 seconds or so it would stabilize around 110. So anything higher than that didn't hold.

If you stick your finger in the exhaust opening you can feel a ridge that shouldn't be there. On the wall between where the valve is and a coolant passage. You can also see a crack on the inside of the coolant passage. It's not directly cracked on the surface (though it looks stressed, like a crack forming.) So it definitely could hold some pressure...

I might have a high-res camera later today, I'll post pics if I can.

DaVinG

 

[fiatfactory]

Fiat sohc's are not known for cracking the heads...

Usually when oil and water are mixed... it is seldom at the head gasket where they meet...the usual suspects would be the alloy water jacket hex plugs found under the cambox... you can see them in your head shots...give these a poke with something pointy and see if they are corroded, this is the usual spot for oil and water to combine.

SteveC