Some X chatter going on at Ferrari...
- Thread starter Greg (in Conn)
- Start date
DuaneEstill
Banned User
I noticed that...
It really gives you a perspective about how and why people are they way they are about owning cars.
Some of those guys, who have no clue about an X, just turn their noses up. These are the same guys that aren't real drivers and to them, a Ferrari is a status symbol and an expensive thing to own.
The most balanced perspective was from one of our own, Dave M. who currently owns both. He was correct in pointing out that both of the cars in the comparison had issues. I might add that I've followed his blog/info thing on the sorting of his 308 and he's educated me on what a well sorted 308 is supposed to be. I'm headed to Ferrari land next, right into a 308/328.
Dave's very informative website: http://ferrari308gtsi.multiply.com/
I like the general conclusion that the X is the best non-Ferrari 308 rear engined experience that can be had and it still handles as good or better when well sorted. That the X is even on the map at this point let alone still impressing people and causing folks like us to go nuts over it, is an overwhelming testimony to how great this design has sustained over time, not to mention fun to drive.
It really gives you a perspective about how and why people are they way they are about owning cars.
Some of those guys, who have no clue about an X, just turn their noses up. These are the same guys that aren't real drivers and to them, a Ferrari is a status symbol and an expensive thing to own.
The most balanced perspective was from one of our own, Dave M. who currently owns both. He was correct in pointing out that both of the cars in the comparison had issues. I might add that I've followed his blog/info thing on the sorting of his 308 and he's educated me on what a well sorted 308 is supposed to be. I'm headed to Ferrari land next, right into a 308/328.
Dave's very informative website: http://ferrari308gtsi.multiply.com/
I like the general conclusion that the X is the best non-Ferrari 308 rear engined experience that can be had and it still handles as good or better when well sorted. That the X is even on the map at this point let alone still impressing people and causing folks like us to go nuts over it, is an overwhelming testimony to how great this design has sustained over time, not to mention fun to drive.
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Chris Obert
autocrosser, X driver
In case you don't know, it was my touring X in the magazine they are discussing...
On this one "
miketuason
F1 Rookie
Silver Subscribed
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: HANFORD, CA.
Full Name: Mike
Posts: 4,805
No Classified Ratings
Guys, don't forget the Lancia Scorpion/Monte Carlo which I think fall in between this two cars. The Scorpion/Monte Carlo were originally going to be call X120, Being an owner of both Scorpion and 308, I can tell you how similar they are and how many parts that can be shared between the two cars and the X19 too. I would probably say that the Scorpion/MonteCarlo are a better comparison to the 308 than the X19. "
Mike has it spot on. As we were standing there in the rain watching the photographer we discussed how a better comparison would have been the 308 & a Scorpion, mostly because they are both penned by Pininfarina.
It's more challenging comparing apples & oranges.
Greg (in Conn)
Bertone curator - X driver
Yes very nice X Chris...
1979 Fiat X1/9, VIN: 128AS10114021 , 94,000 miles, brown interior, silver & blue exterior, 4 cylinders, Manual 5-Speed, Convertible, Excellent Condition, Sunroof,CD Player, 1979 X1/9 Runs great, my personal driver. Goes anywhere reliably and quickly. Mechanically stock except carburetor secondaries open with your right foot. New DuPont Chroma One paint completed 04/2004. I have installed 1975-76 bumpers modified to single ba. $7,000.00. 831 818 9629, fiatplus*aol.com
1979 Fiat X1/9, VIN: 128AS10114021 , 94,000 miles, brown interior, silver & blue exterior, 4 cylinders, Manual 5-Speed, Convertible, Excellent Condition, Sunroof,CD Player, 1979 X1/9 Runs great, my personal driver. Goes anywhere reliably and quickly. Mechanically stock except carburetor secondaries open with your right foot. New DuPont Chroma One paint completed 04/2004. I have installed 1975-76 bumpers modified to single ba. $7,000.00. 831 818 9629, fiatplus*aol.com
Dave80GTSi
Original Owner 1978 X1/9 (now sold)
*( ... blush ... )*
Duane, thanks for the recognition and the kind words! It's gratifying to hear that -someone- out there is actually looking at the stuff that I post on my website!
I bought my 308 in 2003, after 25 years of X ownership, so I've always looked at the 308 thru X eyes, so to speak.
Both cars are a treat, I love both of them, and can't ever envision selling either one.
To criticize the X because it somehow does not "measure up" to the 308 ( ... whatever that phrase means) is to be unfair and over-critical. In many driving circumstances, the X is the car of choice over the 308 - while in other instances, vice versa.
Best brief summary that I can say is that the 308 is simply a slightly larger, notably faster, better sounding, and more refined X1/9. Any X head would immediately feel right at home in one.
Cheers - DM
P.S. - For the benefit of any first-time visitors, the X1/9 section at my website shows the step-by-step pictoral procedure for the fitment of my Whoa Brake Kit, among lots of other general X dribble ......
Duane, thanks for the recognition and the kind words! It's gratifying to hear that -someone- out there is actually looking at the stuff that I post on my website!
I bought my 308 in 2003, after 25 years of X ownership, so I've always looked at the 308 thru X eyes, so to speak.
Both cars are a treat, I love both of them, and can't ever envision selling either one.
To criticize the X because it somehow does not "measure up" to the 308 ( ... whatever that phrase means) is to be unfair and over-critical. In many driving circumstances, the X is the car of choice over the 308 - while in other instances, vice versa.
Best brief summary that I can say is that the 308 is simply a slightly larger, notably faster, better sounding, and more refined X1/9. Any X head would immediately feel right at home in one.
Cheers - DM
P.S. - For the benefit of any first-time visitors, the X1/9 section at my website shows the step-by-step pictoral procedure for the fitment of my Whoa Brake Kit, among lots of other general X dribble ......
Paul Valente
Automotive Engineer
I've been on that board before
Stopped by again and threw-up (no pun intended) some pictures.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I just don't see the need to compare the X1/9 to a 308.
Stopped by again and threw-up (no pun intended) some pictures.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I just don't see the need to compare the X1/9 to a 308.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Three In The Family & More...
Historically, there are three cars involved in this discussion and a few closely related. The Ferrari 308 series holds desirability due to brand affiliation and etc..like Porsche and others.
When trying to compare a 308 to an X1/9, it's a rather poor way to compare them as they are different designs, but do share similar Italian roots and passion.
It is also myopic and ignorant to pin an X1/9's lack of acceleration, plastic cheapness and other superficial items that give the impression of an inferior car to the 308. A more sophisticated and educated owner/driver could easily see the strengths and weaknesses of both designs.
Yes, the Ferrari has a nicer interior, better fit & finish, materials in some places, more powerful, social status and dream, fantasy desirability and more. Regardless, consider the X is designed to a price point different than the 308. One must keep in mind the economic limitations imposed on any design and the political forces at work in any design.
Drop in a modern drive train in to an X with 200+ Bhp & 200+ lb/ft of torque with a properly modified and set-up chassis and the X1/9 becomes a very, very different small mid-engine car.
The Ferrari 308 is basically a larger X1/9, the Lancia MonteCarlo, in the middle and X1/9 being small. All share more similarities than differences. They all share some parts that are common to the FIAT parts bins.
The Ferrari 308 got a production development program while the MonteCarlo and X1/9 were denied proper production development program (even if the MonteCarlo was made as a series 2). The MonteCarlo went on to become a WRC and endruo race winner, while the X1/9 was forced into the corner of neglect for political reasons.
There have been numerous opportunity for me to be a Ferrari 308 or other Italian Exotic owner, but all those years spent at a Ferrari shopp became ownership by proxy which allowed me to have experience and not be saddled with the liabilities of owning a Ferrari or any other Italian exotic.
I do believe every Italian car fan owes it to themselves to spend some time in any of these Italian exotics as the experience is quite unique and special in their own way. The on thing that struck me about these cars was how different each Italian Exotic is, even if they are the same model, same production time and etc. Each seems to have their own distinctive personality and quirks very much like members of the human family.
Ferrari's are great when one wants to keep an original design intact and enjoy what the designers intended the car to be. Another reason why I will not own an Ferrari, modify it significantly and it can becomes a mongrel with little desierability.
So, for those who like to play, the MonteCarlo and X1/9 are better choices as a semi finished designs with great potential which is why me owns both as project cars. Engine/transaxle transplants are quite popular in MonteCarlos as much as X1/9.
Both chassis are very capable in this regard and when the rest of the suspension is properly modified and set-up, these cars can become individualized expressions of their owner/creators.
All three are products of Italian passion for mid-engine two seaters, enjoy them for what they are and what they have to offer.
Maybe share this thread with the folks at Ferrari Chat?
I'm going to stop now even when I have much more to say on this topic...
Historically, there are three cars involved in this discussion and a few closely related. The Ferrari 308 series holds desirability due to brand affiliation and etc..like Porsche and others.
When trying to compare a 308 to an X1/9, it's a rather poor way to compare them as they are different designs, but do share similar Italian roots and passion.
It is also myopic and ignorant to pin an X1/9's lack of acceleration, plastic cheapness and other superficial items that give the impression of an inferior car to the 308. A more sophisticated and educated owner/driver could easily see the strengths and weaknesses of both designs.
Yes, the Ferrari has a nicer interior, better fit & finish, materials in some places, more powerful, social status and dream, fantasy desirability and more. Regardless, consider the X is designed to a price point different than the 308. One must keep in mind the economic limitations imposed on any design and the political forces at work in any design.
Drop in a modern drive train in to an X with 200+ Bhp & 200+ lb/ft of torque with a properly modified and set-up chassis and the X1/9 becomes a very, very different small mid-engine car.
The Ferrari 308 is basically a larger X1/9, the Lancia MonteCarlo, in the middle and X1/9 being small. All share more similarities than differences. They all share some parts that are common to the FIAT parts bins.
The Ferrari 308 got a production development program while the MonteCarlo and X1/9 were denied proper production development program (even if the MonteCarlo was made as a series 2). The MonteCarlo went on to become a WRC and endruo race winner, while the X1/9 was forced into the corner of neglect for political reasons.
There have been numerous opportunity for me to be a Ferrari 308 or other Italian Exotic owner, but all those years spent at a Ferrari shopp became ownership by proxy which allowed me to have experience and not be saddled with the liabilities of owning a Ferrari or any other Italian exotic.
I do believe every Italian car fan owes it to themselves to spend some time in any of these Italian exotics as the experience is quite unique and special in their own way. The on thing that struck me about these cars was how different each Italian Exotic is, even if they are the same model, same production time and etc. Each seems to have their own distinctive personality and quirks very much like members of the human family.
Ferrari's are great when one wants to keep an original design intact and enjoy what the designers intended the car to be. Another reason why I will not own an Ferrari, modify it significantly and it can becomes a mongrel with little desierability.
So, for those who like to play, the MonteCarlo and X1/9 are better choices as a semi finished designs with great potential which is why me owns both as project cars. Engine/transaxle transplants are quite popular in MonteCarlos as much as X1/9.
Both chassis are very capable in this regard and when the rest of the suspension is properly modified and set-up, these cars can become individualized expressions of their owner/creators.
All three are products of Italian passion for mid-engine two seaters, enjoy them for what they are and what they have to offer.
Maybe share this thread with the folks at Ferrari Chat?
I'm going to stop now even when I have much more to say on this topic...
DuaneEstill
Banned User
This is turning into a good thread!
First Bernice:
Your observations are always so well stated. I would volunteer to cross-post on F-chat but I thought better of it. Some of those guys over there are rather snobby and might say something out of line, and we just can't have that. Always, always enjoy your comments and appreciate your very in-depth knowledge.
Dave M.
Man...I can't tell you how many hours I've spent pondering your 308 sorting, over and over and over again. Your writing and methodology are among the most meticulous and easy to read I've ever seen amongst the human kind. I've read every single page and looked at every picture AT LEAST 10 times because I'm trying to memorize all the things you've pointed out in order to be applicable to my future purchase. Just two weeks ago I was looking at an 85' 308 and I was mentally filing through your observations at various points, the 16's were stock whereas you upgraded yours (I immediately recognize Gottis now), the plenum hose condition, Euro or US spec, (this was US), instrument cluster surround color, the flatness of the seat cushions, and on and on. Thanks for documenting all this rather detailed information that makes for a well sorted 308. Your pictures on the 308 showroom thread hold up well to anything else on there, and that's a bunch of 308's!
First Bernice:
Your observations are always so well stated. I would volunteer to cross-post on F-chat but I thought better of it. Some of those guys over there are rather snobby and might say something out of line, and we just can't have that. Always, always enjoy your comments and appreciate your very in-depth knowledge.
Dave M.
Man...I can't tell you how many hours I've spent pondering your 308 sorting, over and over and over again. Your writing and methodology are among the most meticulous and easy to read I've ever seen amongst the human kind. I've read every single page and looked at every picture AT LEAST 10 times because I'm trying to memorize all the things you've pointed out in order to be applicable to my future purchase. Just two weeks ago I was looking at an 85' 308 and I was mentally filing through your observations at various points, the 16's were stock whereas you upgraded yours (I immediately recognize Gottis now), the plenum hose condition, Euro or US spec, (this was US), instrument cluster surround color, the flatness of the seat cushions, and on and on. Thanks for documenting all this rather detailed information that makes for a well sorted 308. Your pictures on the 308 showroom thread hold up well to anything else on there, and that's a bunch of 308's!
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Duane, You NEED to Own a 308...
this will be a very worth while experience for you in many ways.
My favorites would be the first generation fiberglass body 308s, pre 1978 which are now sought after by collectors and were frowned upon back in the day. Consider the Betrone bodied 308-GT4 which due to the lack of a Pinn styled body, they seem to be less desierable. If the budget allows, consider an 328..these have enough production updates that makes them just that bit better.
As for doing your own work on these cars, lots of little parts and hardware. Kinda like working on a watch. Be ready to deal with lot os small sized hardware and sub-assemblies. If you can wrench on an X, you can wrench on a Ferrari. Don't be afraid of wrenching on these cars. It will go a long ways to keeping ownership easier:dance:
this will be a very worth while experience for you in many ways.
My favorites would be the first generation fiberglass body 308s, pre 1978 which are now sought after by collectors and were frowned upon back in the day. Consider the Betrone bodied 308-GT4 which due to the lack of a Pinn styled body, they seem to be less desierable. If the budget allows, consider an 328..these have enough production updates that makes them just that bit better.
As for doing your own work on these cars, lots of little parts and hardware. Kinda like working on a watch. Be ready to deal with lot os small sized hardware and sub-assemblies. If you can wrench on an X, you can wrench on a Ferrari. Don't be afraid of wrenching on these cars. It will go a long ways to keeping ownership easier:dance:
Dave80GTSi
Original Owner 1978 X1/9 (now sold)
Motivation
Since my website has come up for discussion, thought I’d explain a bit here concerning my motivation for posting and maintaining it, which I hope ties back directly into the discussion at hand.
First off, I never intended my site to be a 308-specific website, but rather one which showcases all of my Italian cars. But the problem with this thought is that, since I bought my X new in 1978, those many years of X “refinements” and modification work have mostly passed, done independently during those pre-internet days (engine work, tranny final drive swap, etc.). So I unfortunately don’t have a wide assortment of digital pictures to post which relate back to this early X work. Nowadays I only have recent X work pictures available (the aforementioned Whoa Brake kit perhaps being the most notable of late), so the scope of my X work appears at first glance to be much smaller than the 308’s work, which is not at all the case.
My motivation behind my website is several-fold, but the key one is to try to take some of the mystery out of 308 ownership, and to show the “real world” side of their care.
To explain, I’ve found that the majority of modern Ferrari owners that I encounter strike me as mechanical neophytes, not becoming involved with the mechanical work required for their cars - their work is often limited in scope to cleaning and waxing, for instance. These folks are generally keenly focused upon maintaining the car’s factory originality (note Bernice’s comments earlier about a modified Ferrari becoming a “mongrel” with “little desirability”), which is perhaps understandable on the one hand considering the very high cost of a new model Ferrari
By contrast, there’s a small handful of wacko geezers like me who view the 308 as just another 30 year old used Italian car which requires a fair amount of sorting to become reliable and to personalize it to my tastes. And that’s the primary focus of my website – to show that these cars are not mysterious at all, and are well within the range of any capable DIY’er to maintain.
Any seasoned X head, well accustomed to working on their X, will immediately feel right at home wrenching on a 308.
If you look at the modifications that I’ve done to my car, with –very- few exceptions, all work done is relatively minor in scope and easily reversible should some purist other than me someday want to revert back to OEM. I carefully store and label all OEM parts that I remove for such future potential use. So I don’t feel that I have painted myself into a corner with this car by creating a “mongrel” ( … nice word, that!) which deviates too far away from OEM.
And that brings up the whole philosophical justification for owning a car like this in the first place. If maintaining the car in pristine showroom condition is your main motivation as an owner, then you tend to begrudge every mile put on the car as “deteriorating” this condition. So, the car quickly becomes a Garage Queen that you pull out every other month to wash and to wax, and to put onto display at the local car show, since driving it might make it dirty (again, to use as an example).
Using myself as a contrast to the above, the most fun that I’ve ever had with my 308 was turning laps at full competition speed at Mid-Ohio, as I’ve showed on the website. And yes, the car was plenty dirty at the end of those track days …
It’s extremely gratifying to hear of Duane’s use of my website as a 308 Buyer’s Guide of sorts. I really would have liked to have had such a resource available to me back in 2003, so if it has enabled Duane, and any others, to become more knowledgeable concerning the model’s quirks and idiosyncrasies prior to purchase, then I’ve accomplished my goal.
Finally, to bring the discussion back full circle, the whole idea of comparing the X to the 308 is sort of a flawed premise to start with, again as Bernice has noted earlier.
It’s just like asking a father which of his children is his favorite – one loves them all equally, recognizing their differences which make them unique, as well as their similarities.
And so it is with me.
Cheers - DM
Since my website has come up for discussion, thought I’d explain a bit here concerning my motivation for posting and maintaining it, which I hope ties back directly into the discussion at hand.
First off, I never intended my site to be a 308-specific website, but rather one which showcases all of my Italian cars. But the problem with this thought is that, since I bought my X new in 1978, those many years of X “refinements” and modification work have mostly passed, done independently during those pre-internet days (engine work, tranny final drive swap, etc.). So I unfortunately don’t have a wide assortment of digital pictures to post which relate back to this early X work. Nowadays I only have recent X work pictures available (the aforementioned Whoa Brake kit perhaps being the most notable of late), so the scope of my X work appears at first glance to be much smaller than the 308’s work, which is not at all the case.
My motivation behind my website is several-fold, but the key one is to try to take some of the mystery out of 308 ownership, and to show the “real world” side of their care.
To explain, I’ve found that the majority of modern Ferrari owners that I encounter strike me as mechanical neophytes, not becoming involved with the mechanical work required for their cars - their work is often limited in scope to cleaning and waxing, for instance. These folks are generally keenly focused upon maintaining the car’s factory originality (note Bernice’s comments earlier about a modified Ferrari becoming a “mongrel” with “little desirability”), which is perhaps understandable on the one hand considering the very high cost of a new model Ferrari
By contrast, there’s a small handful of wacko geezers like me who view the 308 as just another 30 year old used Italian car which requires a fair amount of sorting to become reliable and to personalize it to my tastes. And that’s the primary focus of my website – to show that these cars are not mysterious at all, and are well within the range of any capable DIY’er to maintain.
Any seasoned X head, well accustomed to working on their X, will immediately feel right at home wrenching on a 308.
If you look at the modifications that I’ve done to my car, with –very- few exceptions, all work done is relatively minor in scope and easily reversible should some purist other than me someday want to revert back to OEM. I carefully store and label all OEM parts that I remove for such future potential use. So I don’t feel that I have painted myself into a corner with this car by creating a “mongrel” ( … nice word, that!) which deviates too far away from OEM.
And that brings up the whole philosophical justification for owning a car like this in the first place. If maintaining the car in pristine showroom condition is your main motivation as an owner, then you tend to begrudge every mile put on the car as “deteriorating” this condition. So, the car quickly becomes a Garage Queen that you pull out every other month to wash and to wax, and to put onto display at the local car show, since driving it might make it dirty (again, to use as an example).
Using myself as a contrast to the above, the most fun that I’ve ever had with my 308 was turning laps at full competition speed at Mid-Ohio, as I’ve showed on the website. And yes, the car was plenty dirty at the end of those track days …
It’s extremely gratifying to hear of Duane’s use of my website as a 308 Buyer’s Guide of sorts. I really would have liked to have had such a resource available to me back in 2003, so if it has enabled Duane, and any others, to become more knowledgeable concerning the model’s quirks and idiosyncrasies prior to purchase, then I’ve accomplished my goal.
Finally, to bring the discussion back full circle, the whole idea of comparing the X to the 308 is sort of a flawed premise to start with, again as Bernice has noted earlier.
It’s just like asking a father which of his children is his favorite – one loves them all equally, recognizing their differences which make them unique, as well as their similarities.
And so it is with me.
Cheers - DM
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Chris Obert
autocrosser, X driver
1979 Fiat X1/9, VIN: 128AS10114021 , 94,000 miles, brown interior, silver & blue exterior, 4 cylinders, Manual 5-Speed, Convertible, Excellent Condition, Sunroof,CD Player, 1979 X1/9 Runs great, my personal driver. Goes anywhere reliably and quickly. Mechanically stock except carburetor secondaries open with your right foot. New DuPont Chroma One paint completed 04/2004. I have installed 1975-76 bumpers modified to single ba. $7,000.00. 831 818 9629, fiatplus*aol.com
Thanks. Just led a three day 1,000 mile tour for our local Fiat club in it. Just over 1,200 miles for me including getting to the start & back home afterwards. Kept it about 4,200-4,500 RPM (in 5th) when possible, and got lots of compliments on how it looks. All good! It will make a great car for someone, I have lots more.
DuaneEstill
Banned User
Buyer's Guide
That's a great description Dave. It's my first reference point, no questions asked, and has been for two years now. It's the first place where I could clearly understand the difference between a Euro and US spec, which seems simple now. I'd read (and still do) all this stuff on F-chat then go to your site!! The common sense layout to your various 'events' in your ownership really do make it accessible and practical in a way that I've not seen, and I've looked at every single website of an F-chatter that covers 308 ownership on F-chat, so, really, thanks so much for taking the effort.
There really are differences in owners, and attitudes. It seems to hinge on mechanical proclivity first, and affluence second. You could just smell the condescension in some of the posts about our little X, but even on a tough place like F-chat, the overwhelming admiration for the Baby Miura shines through.
You and Bernice are way far advanced in your knowledge, I appreciate the knowledge of the Ferrari from that perspective. As for me, I can drop a transmission on an X, take apart the gears and put them back together, water pump, starter, timing belt, change out the clutch, radiator, etc. and that's it, I cannot rebuild an engine. I've done all of this on an X in my own garage but you guys are in another realm of knowledge, so please, never think that your detailed contributions are not being read...THEY ARE!! THANK YOU!!
That's a great description Dave. It's my first reference point, no questions asked, and has been for two years now. It's the first place where I could clearly understand the difference between a Euro and US spec, which seems simple now. I'd read (and still do) all this stuff on F-chat then go to your site!! The common sense layout to your various 'events' in your ownership really do make it accessible and practical in a way that I've not seen, and I've looked at every single website of an F-chatter that covers 308 ownership on F-chat, so, really, thanks so much for taking the effort.
There really are differences in owners, and attitudes. It seems to hinge on mechanical proclivity first, and affluence second. You could just smell the condescension in some of the posts about our little X, but even on a tough place like F-chat, the overwhelming admiration for the Baby Miura shines through.
You and Bernice are way far advanced in your knowledge, I appreciate the knowledge of the Ferrari from that perspective. As for me, I can drop a transmission on an X, take apart the gears and put them back together, water pump, starter, timing belt, change out the clutch, radiator, etc. and that's it, I cannot rebuild an engine. I've done all of this on an X in my own garage but you guys are in another realm of knowledge, so please, never think that your detailed contributions are not being read...THEY ARE!! THANK YOU!!
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
There is a part of me that wishes more Ferrari owners/drivers would wrench on their cars. Even if they do little stuff like fix loose trim.
More involved stuff like replacing the cam belts, brakes and etc are not all that different than wrenching on other FIAT/Lancia/Ferrari cars of the same vintage.
Beyond saving some $$$$ in the process, it can give the owner/driver some perspective and deeper appreciation into the beauty, design concepts and Italian way of build a car like this.
There is much more than just the visual pleasure of looking at a Ferrari's body, there is much beauty to be discovered in side underneath the body work. Shaped tubing (round, square, oval as required) which serves as the 308's chassis is usually hidden, but very visiable once the engine/transaxle/rear suspension cradle is removed. Look at the castings and note how the curves and radii are formed and blended. There is much more to appreciate for those who can and do appreciate these hidden details built into these cars. Even the US reg that had to be added were well done given what Ferrari folks had to do to sell their cars in the US.
Mouse runnner seat belts on the F40 comes to mind, totally silly on a F40, but those were required for the US market.
Maybe one day, I'll dig up some old photo of what the insides of a 308 engine and transaxle looks like.. There is much more to see and appreciate on the inside of the mechanicals of these cars.
Garage queen Ferraris have the same problems that any car which sits for long periods of time (like dead hydraulics, rotted hoses and etc). IMO, the best Ferrari's are the ones with higher millage, but properly maintained and drive often. These cars like to be driven and enjoyed which is also true for the X...:dance:
More involved stuff like replacing the cam belts, brakes and etc are not all that different than wrenching on other FIAT/Lancia/Ferrari cars of the same vintage.
Beyond saving some $$$$ in the process, it can give the owner/driver some perspective and deeper appreciation into the beauty, design concepts and Italian way of build a car like this.
There is much more than just the visual pleasure of looking at a Ferrari's body, there is much beauty to be discovered in side underneath the body work. Shaped tubing (round, square, oval as required) which serves as the 308's chassis is usually hidden, but very visiable once the engine/transaxle/rear suspension cradle is removed. Look at the castings and note how the curves and radii are formed and blended. There is much more to appreciate for those who can and do appreciate these hidden details built into these cars. Even the US reg that had to be added were well done given what Ferrari folks had to do to sell their cars in the US.
Mouse runnner seat belts on the F40 comes to mind, totally silly on a F40, but those were required for the US market.
Maybe one day, I'll dig up some old photo of what the insides of a 308 engine and transaxle looks like.. There is much more to see and appreciate on the inside of the mechanicals of these cars.
Garage queen Ferraris have the same problems that any car which sits for long periods of time (like dead hydraulics, rotted hoses and etc). IMO, the best Ferrari's are the ones with higher millage, but properly maintained and drive often. These cars like to be driven and enjoyed which is also true for the X...:dance: