Time to replace brakes. Upgraded to Wilwood big brake from Allison

toddr124

toddr124

Hagerstown, MD
Wore out the EBC green pads on the front of my 86 X1/9. I know the right front caliper needs to be rebuilt or replaced (it will not bleed easily). Thinking of upgrading the front brakes.
Is there an upgraded brake system that is semi reasonable? I do most street driving, but I have done a few autox and track days too.
 
Todd, are you trying to upgrade the stock components or go the "big brake" route? I'm seriously not happy with the brakes on my Bertone and that includes new MC, rebuilt calipers, new SS hoses and MWB performance pads. I had the green stuff pads in and went with the MWB pads which seem to be a bit of an improvement. On the list of more stupid things to do to the car is to install front calipers on the rear, probably something most folks would not do as you lose the parking brake. If nothing else I can report back here on what if any difference it made.

At least you have 15" wheels which should fit around any big brake kit.
 
carl said:
On the list of more stupid things to do to the car is to install front calipers on the rear, probably something most folks would not do as you lose the parking brake.
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carl,

I just haven't put front calipers on the rear because my neighborhood doesn't have light poles to stop my X. :eek::p:cool::D:rolleyes:
index.php
 
kmead said:
Wow snap
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Exactly what the light pole did.

Actually I'm also stupid; I am considering the front calipers in the rear on my "outlaw" X, together with VW front brakes. And as if that wasn't stupid enough, I might go against the warnings of others and use a line-lock as the park brake. Increase the master cylinder size you ask? We'll see. Stupid is as stupid does.
 
Todd, sorry we got away from your question so quickly. There have been several excellent (and extensive) threads on the subject of brake upgrades, covering pretty much every option available. I might have a couple of them saved, but start with searching the topic.
 
Overall I am quite happy with OE brakes but I will likely be going with the Vick’s kit for vented brakes on the front.

For the rear I intend to experiment with 38mm pistoned VW rear calipers from a Mk6 and 7 Golf and see if I need to add an inline pressure limiting valve. I have the calipers and will be looking at a few generations of mounts as the Golf 4 mount will fit the later gen calipers. I like emergency brakes that work.

That’s my plan for the future as I increase the performance of one of my Xs as my use case is nearly exactly what Todd’s use is.
 
I looked at Vicks Prima brake upgrade, but they are out of stock until at least next year.
I can only find Whoa brakes on ebay and they are mark used.

These are the only 2 upgrades I have found with search feature. Any other bolt on upgrades?
 
For those who like to post my picture, need I remind you I had stock rear calipers and the handbrake hooked up when that car took off...so what have I got to lose by removing the ebrake altogether!?

I love the WHOA brakes, I don't think used is an issue, they use Wilwood calipers so parts should be easy to get if you needed them.
 
I have read all the links and decided to get the Wilwood big brake upgrade from Allison automotive. I am running their 15 inch rims so they should fit. I will let you know how they work in a couple of weeks.
 
Before jumping into upgrading big brakes in the rear, you need to equally upgrade the braking balance in the front. Upping the performance in the rear only, will result in a bad brake imbalance with the rears locking up first. If that happens, any excitation to the outside, whether that be braking in a slight turn, or one corner locks slightly before the other and you could find yourself spinning willy nilly. I just took the SAE Hydraulic brake course; trust me I'm an expert! :cool:
 
If it was a front engine car I wouldn't even think of putting front calipers on the back but given that there is more weight on the rear with the X, it's worth a try. Unlike some of you guys, I don't have tons of money to throw at my Fiats so using rebuilt front calipers I already have makes for an interesting swap and costs me nothing. It's experimental and if it doesn't work out or seems unsafe then obviously I will go back to the stock setup.

I wish someone would make super aggressive brake pads for our old Fiats, something equivalent to sand paper! I'd be more than happy to swap out pads and rotors once a year to get safe braking. The more we drive our modern cars the more obvious it is that Xs don't really have very good brakes. Spiders have the same rotors/calipers and can do quite well but the difference is the spider has a brake booster.
 
If having front calipers on the rear gives too much breaking bias towards the rear, then you can add an inexpensive adjustable proportioning valve to dial in the desired balance.
 
My VW calipers as a reference were 50 bucks for the pair shipped with VW OE pads that were nearly new. I haven’t worked out the bracket needs/costs. I don’t expect it to be much.
 
Its fabricating brackets that are the problem for 99% of us. We don't have the tools or skill to make such critical components and don't have access to machine shops that could make them if we wanted them to. Guys like Courtney could probably make his own calipers and rotors!
 
AKimball92 said:
Before jumping into upgrading big brakes in the rear, you need to equally upgrade the braking balance in the front. Upping the performance in the rear only, will result in a bad brake imbalance with the rears locking up first. If that happens, any excitation to the outside, whether that be braking in a slight turn, or one corner locks slightly before the other and you could find yourself spinning willy nilly. I just took the SAE Hydraulic brake course; trust me I'm an expert! :cool:
Click to expand...

Check out Bernice's article on using 38mm rear brakes in the rear from a Scorpion or a Fiat 125.

https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/38mm-piston-rear-brake-caliper-install.31288/

I have done this in conjunction with Uno Turbo 54 mm stock sized pistons and larger disc ventilated brakes in the front (the upgrade you mentioned?), and I am really pleased with the results. The car squats in breaking and opposed to a slight nose dive, and the balance is good. Bernice says her set up does well in the rain, I have not done so. TonyK and Hussein have used them with stock fronts I think.

These parts bolt on, and can be hard to find and expensive.

Using 54 mm stock fronts in the rear is a big balance change, I agree with Andrew and Dr Jeff.

Paul Davock
 
EBC green stuff not recommended for street driven cars. They changed the pad material binder resulting in less pad grip when cold. This is a problem on street driven cars.


Bernice.
 
As some of you might know my car is electric with a series wound DC motor.
That means I have no compression like an ICE and no regen like an Ac motor to help slow me down so the only thing between me and God is the brakes.

When I first did my car I had 1134 pounds of Led acid batteries stuffed in it.
The curb weight was 3100 pounds plus me and a passenger making the total weight around 3500 pounds.

I drove my lead sled X for about two years that way.
Other than feeling the extra weight in the turns it stopped on down hill slopes fine and from a 60 mile an hour panic stop test it was more than satisfactory.
In fact with a hard braking get little or no tire squeal.
I have whittled the curb down to 2500 pounds and can now get the tires so screech in a hard stop.

Early on I played with the idea of an after market brake setup but have been driving hilly roads 18 years with stock brakes and pads bought through NAPA and no problems so figure I have saved money that otherwise would have been wasted.

IMO,If you have good pads calipers and M/C that is bled properly your X should have excellent stopping.
 
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