Turbine Hybrid

usta in Portland

Daily Driver
I have been reading a history of science that touches on the initial development of turbines and was wondering, given their high efficiency relative to a reciprocating heat engine, why a hybrid electric drive using a turbine has not been pursued. I'm thinking that a turbine running a generator at constant speed would be very efficient indeed.
Aren't some navy ships run exactly this way-or maybe used to be? Are they just too difficult in terms of heat and emissions or something?
 
I don't know of any 'big manufacturers' jumping on board yet... but microturbine maker Capstone has a 'show car'... And another company has a truck using one of their turbines. The 3rd video has more 'technical info' of why it's a potential win, even though it's pricey. (air bearings! How rad!)

http://www.capstoneturbine.com/news/story.asp?id=536


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbZ9LioGQeA"]Turbine / Electric Supercar - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmoD87THXzQ"]Capstone CMT380X Finished Product - YouTube[/ame]

And a truck with a Capstone turbine in it...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rKsk6hEcNQ"]Wrightspeed, California, United States - Capstone Turbine Corporation - YouTube[/ame]
 
Regarding that 3rd video... the one with the delivery truck... he said the turbine was rated for 40,000 hours!

I couldn't get my head around that... am I correct in my math? That is the equivalent of running for 50 hours a week for 15 years?!?!?

Wow.:eyepop:
 
Yowza

Regarding that 3rd video... the one with the delivery truck... he said the turbine was rated for 40,000 hours!

I couldn't get my head around that... am I correct in my math? That is the equivalent of running for 50 hours a week for 15 years?!?!?

Wow.:eyepop:


Yeah, incredible. But then again they don't have many parts to wear out. Aren't jet turbines rated in the 10s of thousands of hours?
 
Well, I know they get 'overhauled' in military use a WHOLE bunch more often than that!

I mean often you get stuff like the rear portion of the engine would be rebuilt at 800 hours, and maybe the entire engine at 1500 hours... I realize that 'rebuilt' isn't the same as 'service life'... but I'm going to assume that the 'air bearings' in the Capstone turbine require less maintenance than traditional oil bearings which likely get coated with burn oil residue, etc. It's also likely less stressed running at a comfortable efficient speed compared to a turbine in a motor running at different speeds and altitudes in a aircraft.

I'd think a air bearing equipped turbine burning CNG would be a pretty clean internally, even after hundreds of hours.
 
usta in Portland

"Aren't some navy ships run exactly this way-or maybe used to be? Are they just too difficult in terms of heat and emissions or something?"


Indeed they are, just about every decent Navy uses them as does the new Queen Mary ( but her turbines are the latest evolution )

The General Electric LM2500 gas turbines are for example in Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates, run 2 x of these sucking F76/JP-5 ( marine diesel -ish ) to push them along at 'over' 30 knots. Been around since the 70's in the Spruance and Kidd class destroyers.

Not great when mated to an electric generaor with a thermal efficiency of about 40 percent at ISO conditions.

Small and compact APU's ( auxiliary power units ) happily live in helicopters are are the first turbine to run up in lets say a Skiorsky S70B helicopter to run the electrical system to get the two main turbines to light up. Running jet fuel ( fancy kerosene ), jet powered passenger aircraft tec have similar systems.


The turbines get a little sooty in use and we used to perform the 'water wash' procedure where water in injetced into the running turbine to clean thenm out. Not sure how you would do this in a Hybrid passanger car, wrong amount of water and it gets nasty.

Engine Hours are a recomendation based on a lot of historical data, vibration is the thing to watch. Having seen a LM2500 let go it makes the otto cycle engine term "spun a main bearing" look like a picnic.

Little APU type turbines are well developed and a mature technology, my thougts are that car makers think hybrids need some 'planned maintenance' items for the motor trade to repair to make a few dollars on at a periodical basis - ie oil / filters spark plugs etc.

Never imagined that small scale APU's would ever end up in passenger cars. At the small scale heat could be managed - thermal efficiency, I just don't know.
 
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