<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]What should I do with my engine over the winter?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999 at 1:04 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I drove home last night in a snow storm so it looks like I'm about due to put the x away for the winter and haul out the 4x4. I plan to do the engine and tranny this winter and I'm looking for advice on what to do to make more power.
I want to be able to use regular gas since I commute over 1000k per week and the price difference between reg. and super is significant. I want it to run smoothly in stop and go traffic and have lots of accel. on hills since thats where the passing lanes are. I would be interested in your ideas as to the modifications that give the most power for the buck and I'm going to be looking for parts (cheap) to use in the rebuild. I'll do the work myself so labour cost isn't an issue. Your ideas will be appreciated as will any spare parts that you want to get rid of reasonably that I can use. I'm going to start pulling stuff together over the next couple of months and start the project over xmas. All suggestions appreciated. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hop it up!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 2:04 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
I think you have a late 1300, right?
You can go different routes here. Some of it depends on where you want your power to be and how much you want to spend.
If you want a strong motor and do few upgrades, I would install an 1100cc head. With its higher compression ratio and small ports, it will really increase midrange. Not sure if you can run it with regular gas. A PBS SX-1 cam would go very well with the midrange power emphasis. It's only $75 exchange.
If you did this, your would end up with en angine that has limited breathing potential. The stock carb and intake, small intake ports and valves and restrictive 4-into-1 exchaust manifold would limit your engine to about 6000rpm I guess. But midrange power would be inmproved.
The other approach would be to go for a high rpm motor. This is much more fun and is what the 1300 engine is designed to do. My engine makes good power up to 7000rpm. It will pull to 8000, but the power tapers off. With my car fully loaded with luggage and 2 people though, at some passing lanes it doesn't even accelerate in 4th at 4000rpm.
I have to rev 3rd to 7500 and then shift to get the engine to pull in 4th. Your car has the shorter final drive, so that may not be a problem for you.
A 1300 is never going to be a torque monster, if you want that, get a 1500. I feel that the beauty of the 1300 is how it revs. It takes more work to go this way, but it is also much more fun. For passing lane power, you would probably be in the high rpm anyway, making this kind of power more useful to you than somone who just runs around town. What I would do is get an 1100 head and have the intake ports opened up on a mill. It is just a straight bore job. Possibly unshroud the valves some. This way you would increase CR and get good flow for high rpm.
I am in the process of installing dual DCNFs right now. When they are dialed in, I'm hoping that my engine will make power to 8000rpm. You could come down and take it for a spin.
Ulix
member 55.5mm club
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Great suggestions.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 2:42 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I was talking to a guy at lunch today who says he may have a couple of older weber dual DCNF's in the back of his garage. Depending on price I may become a member of the dually club. Did you do anything with the exhaust for the dual carbs since I assume that all the air going in has to come out?
Going to an 1100 head should increase the compression ratio to the point where I think detonation would become a problem. Do you know of anybody who has done this mod and runs regular gas?
The cam seems a good idea. Does it increase the lift or how does the cam improve perf.
I love to rev the 1300 (1978) and a high reving engine is the way I want to go. Since I don't plan on burning rubber off the line torque isn't a big issue since I assume that reving it will give me the power to pass uphill. I currently get about 6500 rpm and about 60-70 miles an hour uphill max. in 3rd. What kind of speed do you get in third at 7000rpm?
What do you mean about a shorter final drive?
What do you mean unshroud the valves?
What about a lighter flywheel?
Thanks this planning is making me wish for spring.
Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The Need for Speed<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 3:52 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey if you can get DCNFs, that's cool.
Before you buy them, evaluate their condition. Does the right manifold come with it?
Should they be rebuilt?
Is there some linkage?
What size venturis are in them, etc.
You are correct in needing a different exhaust. I use a PBS header ($180) with a self-built exhaust ($60). An IAP header may be better, it has longer primaries.
An 1100 head will require higher octane gas but it may be worth it
The SX-1 cam is the lowest cam in the PBS program. Lift and duration are comparable to stock, but the cam opens the valves much faster. So you get some of the advantages of a hot cam (more mixture into the cylinder) without the disadvantage of reduced torque. The downside is valve noise due to the fast opening.
I have that cam in my motor now, but want to try the next step up, the S2.
I don't know what speed I am at in 3rd. I only look at the tach
The later 1300s had a shorter final drive ratio, giving you higher revs in all the gears compared to my early 4speed. This means that at 60mph up hill, your car will be at a higher rpm and have more power available. But it also means higher revs on the interstate at cruising speed.
If you look in a cylinder head, usually the vertical wall of the combustion chamber is quite close to the valve head on one side. So when the valve opens, and the mixture wants to rush in, it "runs into a wall". If you can move the wall away from the valve head (and maybe angle in back), you get better flow.
A lighter flywheel would be nice. Also cheap from PBS ($55 exchange), but of course you have to drop the tranny. It also helps more in the lower gears when the engine is trying to spool up real fast.
So, if you don't want higher CR because of octane problems, and you don't care much about torque, you could install DCNFs, a header, a PBS reground cam or performance cam from another vendor (a 40/80 or 35/75) and you should have a high rpm screamer without even pulling the head. A lighter flywheel should help in the lower gears.
This is not an optimized engine, but should be good fun for little work.
Ulix
chasing ponies<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sound advice from Ulix as usual!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 7:57 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for that explanation, Ulix. I would not have been able to say it so clearly myself... plus, I am glad to have others participating in the doling-out of tips and advice. I only know everything *some* of the time
I agree with darn near everything Ulix has said, and I can only think of one thing to add: Using a lightened flywheel may decrease your ability to pull steep hills. I don't know for fact, as I have stock flywheels on both of my cars (right now, anyway) but in theory the rotating mass of the flywheel helps to keep your momentum up when pulling a hill. If the weight of the flywheel decreases, you may lose a little of that forward momentum on hills a bit faster than you do with a stock flywheel. Can anyone confirm wether this is true from experience?
I always prefer experience over theory!! -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Not quite<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 9:42 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac,
that would be true if the hill is so steep that when you hit it, the car actually slows down.
But Stu is talking about powering up the hill, accelerating past everyone else!
The lightened flywheel helps to change rpm quickly.
So it would have the biggest impact in 1st gear, because you go through it the fastest. It would have progressively less effect at the higher gears.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT> Julian </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->A small observation<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 1:38 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sounds a pretty good combination for a racer, but you may want to rethink on the lighter flywheel if you want to maintain driveability at low revs. With a lumpy cam and increased breathing and fuelling the car is going to lose at low revs and the heavier flywheel will help to keep it spinning - it won't rev as quickly, but it won't stall and kangeroo so much either.
As for the 1500 - my "stock" 1500 revs right round the clock and is still pulling at 8k. The only difference I have over the standard fed. spec. 1500 is the induction and the exhaust. The 1300 is more reliable at higher revs because of the lower piston speed, but the 1500 is only slightly less rev hungry (from experience) and the extra capacity makes a BIG difference to torque. I agree on the exhaust though - the 4-1 exhaust I fitted to replace the stock 4-2-1 has reduced the top of the power band, but the car flys at lower revs thanks to the increase in torque, but it still pulls even at 6500rpm in fifth gear (totally illegal speed of course)
Julian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Cams and other questions?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 9:25 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good suggestions I'm going to go for the cam upgrade. Do I have to use stronger valve springs with the hotter cam? Ulix did you notice much improvement with the cam you currently have and why are you changing to another?
So far my plan it to pull the engine and balance the cylinder volume, pistons, rods, etc. I plan on porting and polishing but I was wondering how much difference headers would make power wise over the stock exhaust (sans cat.).
If I go with the dual dcnf's the intake manifold will have to change I assume. Where can I get a proper one?
How much is the flywheel lightened by? Sitting in stop and go traffic with a lumpy engine doesn't seem desirable. I assume that the lighter cam basically has an advantage in spinning up faster thus more accel. Is there a sig. diff. at higher rpms?
Thanks for all the ideas and help. Stu <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Cams and other questions<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 10:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
no, you don't need different valve springs on an X1/9.
I installed my cam together with the big valve head, so I can't tell you how much difference just the cam makes. I want a slightly hotter cam because the rest of my engine is such that it will be able to take advantage of it, DCNFs, big ports, big valves, header. I want to make power to 8000 and a little beyond. If I don't like it, I can go back to the old cam.
So you are going to pull the engine all apart???
Why? Does it need it?
I wouldn't do that just to balance it. But if you do, make sure you have the rotating masses balanced as well, crank, flywheel, clutch.
Increasing the size of the intake ports may be beneficial on 1300, but I am not sure. If the intake valve size is more restrictive, it won't do you any good. According to PBS, the exhaust valve and port is not restrictive, so don't mess with it.
Polishing won't do you much good either.
A DCNF manifold can be had from PBS for $155 I think. If the DCNFs you are getting don't come with a manifold, don't pay to much for them.
Used sets in working order incl. manifold and linkage usually go for $500 or a little less, complete sets that need rebuilding go for $300 to $350. A brand new set is $1100.
What size are those DCNFs anyway? You could use 36s or 40s.
A good exaust should help you a lot since you have the more restrictive later manifold.
As you noted before, the flow through the engine is limited by the weakest link. If you install DCNFs, you should improve flow on the exhaust side as well and make sure your head flows well too (i.e. no 1100 intake ports).
I can't remember how much the flywheel is lightened, not all that much. The behavior of your engine in traffic will be impacted the most be having a hot cam and low compression. It will do pretty well at high rpm, but may be a dog down low.
The lighter flywheel will help get through the low rpm and into the powerband faster, but if I were you, I'd go for a compression increase. You could use a 1100 head and remove some material in the chamber to deshroud the valves. This will reduce your comprssion ratio (CR) some and if you get lucky, you could get it to 9:1 or so which you may be able to run with low grade pump gas
I think you should come down here, drive my car to see what you can expect and then you could pretty much duplicate my engine (maybe not do the big valve head, just port the 1100 head, you'd save close to $500).
Ulix
DCNFs are on the engine, but not hooked up yet
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Great advice.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 12:06 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The carbs are 40's and I don't know anything about them yet. The engine was getting about 160lbs compression in all the cyl. about 60,000 km ago but now its using oil so I thought it would be worthwhile doing it all this winter. I assumed that the crank comes balanced and I'm not sure how you balance a clutch. If I get a lightened flywheel from pbs does this come balanced or do I have to mount the clutch and balance the two together?
The idea of a using an 1100 head and opening it up to drop the compression back to 9.1 is interesting but it seems easier to just use the existing head. I don't think that I would be any further ahead without a compression increase and I really don't want to pay 10c/liter more for gas considering the milage I drive this could get expensive. What kind of gas milage do you expect with the 40's and do you have a picture of the installation?
Whats a big valve head?
I can live with the low end being a dog but I assume that a lightened balanced engine should spool up quickly enough to at least offset the effect of the hotter cam. Does PBS have the actual specs of the cam posted anywhere?
Driving your car would be a great experience and I would love to try it when you have everything up and dialed in. I would still like to see a tech day and maybe cylinder balancing and carb tuning would be a good topic. Thanks for the inspiration. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Answers<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 3:42 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Since you are going to rebuild the engine anyway, take the crank to a machine shop. They will balance it, then mount the flywheel and balance again, then the clutch and balance again. This way, the crank is balanced by itself so that if you change flywheel or clucth, the assembly will remain balanced.
Yes, the PBS flywheel comes balanced.
I don't know about the gas mileage and I don't have any pictures yet since I am still in the process of mounting the carbs. Actually I started the car an hour ago, but the carbs flooded because I have too much fuel pressure. Need to go buy a pressure regulator.
Cam specs are on the PBS site.
Ulix
back to the garage...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Required Reading<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 10:20 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->http://www.mirafiori.com/pbs/pbssohc.html
You can find a price list and camshaft table at
www.pbseng.com
Ulix
P.S. The writeup states that 1100, 1300 and 1500 intake ports are roughly the same size. I don't think that is correct.
I also suggests (I think) that increasing port size w/o increasing valve size is still beneficial...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Experience<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 9:46 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I just drove Scott Phelps' 1500 for a day. His car has DCNFs, 40/80 cam, PBS lightened flywheel, header etc.
It idles without a problem at 800rpm even when ice cold. It pulls cleanly off the line, it's just amazing.
But, the PBS lightened flywheel is not a race flywheel. It has been lightened as much as practical for strenght. A real race aluminum flywheel would probably have the effect that Julian describes.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Aluminum race flywheel?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 12:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Any idea as to the weight of one of these? I think I probably should keep a decent amount of rotational mass but I like the idea of a quick spool up for passing on the hills. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve Hoelscher"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT> Steve Hoelscher </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Aluminum Flywheels<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 3:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have a tilton aliminum flywheel in my '74 1300. The flywheel along with the ring gear, clutch cover, friction plate, drive plate, spring plate and release bearing, packed in boxes and shipped to me from Tilton, weighed in at 9 lbs.
A stock flywheel is 16 lbs before you add the 10 lbs clutch. A typical lighted stock steel flywheel come in at about 10 to 12 lbs without the clutch.
When I had the tilton in my 1300 on fuel injection, drivablity was not a problem. It would idle fine and pull away from a stop with no fuss (other than the grabby clutch). Now with a much peakier motor in the '74, drivability is more of a problem, but not because of the light flywheel and clutch.
I have lightened flywheels in ALL of my X1/9s and love them. Wouldn't have an X without one.
You literally cannot get the clutch/flywheel too light in an X. A peaky motor makes for a difficult car to launch, but the flywheel has little effect on it.
I would recommend using a lightened steel unit instead of an aluminum flywheel. No one I know of makes a decent aluminum unit other than tilton and the tilton unit is not intended for daily service. Not to mention the $1000 price tag.
Steve<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thank you for that<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 6 1999, 2:59 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks to all who chimed in on this topic, I am getting a good education from you all! -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999 at 1:04 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I drove home last night in a snow storm so it looks like I'm about due to put the x away for the winter and haul out the 4x4. I plan to do the engine and tranny this winter and I'm looking for advice on what to do to make more power.
I want to be able to use regular gas since I commute over 1000k per week and the price difference between reg. and super is significant. I want it to run smoothly in stop and go traffic and have lots of accel. on hills since thats where the passing lanes are. I would be interested in your ideas as to the modifications that give the most power for the buck and I'm going to be looking for parts (cheap) to use in the rebuild. I'll do the work myself so labour cost isn't an issue. Your ideas will be appreciated as will any spare parts that you want to get rid of reasonably that I can use. I'm going to start pulling stuff together over the next couple of months and start the project over xmas. All suggestions appreciated. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hop it up!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 2:04 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
I think you have a late 1300, right?
You can go different routes here. Some of it depends on where you want your power to be and how much you want to spend.
If you want a strong motor and do few upgrades, I would install an 1100cc head. With its higher compression ratio and small ports, it will really increase midrange. Not sure if you can run it with regular gas. A PBS SX-1 cam would go very well with the midrange power emphasis. It's only $75 exchange.
If you did this, your would end up with en angine that has limited breathing potential. The stock carb and intake, small intake ports and valves and restrictive 4-into-1 exchaust manifold would limit your engine to about 6000rpm I guess. But midrange power would be inmproved.
The other approach would be to go for a high rpm motor. This is much more fun and is what the 1300 engine is designed to do. My engine makes good power up to 7000rpm. It will pull to 8000, but the power tapers off. With my car fully loaded with luggage and 2 people though, at some passing lanes it doesn't even accelerate in 4th at 4000rpm.
I have to rev 3rd to 7500 and then shift to get the engine to pull in 4th. Your car has the shorter final drive, so that may not be a problem for you.
A 1300 is never going to be a torque monster, if you want that, get a 1500. I feel that the beauty of the 1300 is how it revs. It takes more work to go this way, but it is also much more fun. For passing lane power, you would probably be in the high rpm anyway, making this kind of power more useful to you than somone who just runs around town. What I would do is get an 1100 head and have the intake ports opened up on a mill. It is just a straight bore job. Possibly unshroud the valves some. This way you would increase CR and get good flow for high rpm.
I am in the process of installing dual DCNFs right now. When they are dialed in, I'm hoping that my engine will make power to 8000rpm. You could come down and take it for a spin.
Ulix
member 55.5mm club
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Great suggestions.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 2:42 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I was talking to a guy at lunch today who says he may have a couple of older weber dual DCNF's in the back of his garage. Depending on price I may become a member of the dually club. Did you do anything with the exhaust for the dual carbs since I assume that all the air going in has to come out?
Going to an 1100 head should increase the compression ratio to the point where I think detonation would become a problem. Do you know of anybody who has done this mod and runs regular gas?
The cam seems a good idea. Does it increase the lift or how does the cam improve perf.
I love to rev the 1300 (1978) and a high reving engine is the way I want to go. Since I don't plan on burning rubber off the line torque isn't a big issue since I assume that reving it will give me the power to pass uphill. I currently get about 6500 rpm and about 60-70 miles an hour uphill max. in 3rd. What kind of speed do you get in third at 7000rpm?
What do you mean about a shorter final drive?
What do you mean unshroud the valves?
What about a lighter flywheel?
Thanks this planning is making me wish for spring.
Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The Need for Speed<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 3:52 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey if you can get DCNFs, that's cool.
Before you buy them, evaluate their condition. Does the right manifold come with it?
Should they be rebuilt?
Is there some linkage?
What size venturis are in them, etc.
You are correct in needing a different exhaust. I use a PBS header ($180) with a self-built exhaust ($60). An IAP header may be better, it has longer primaries.
An 1100 head will require higher octane gas but it may be worth it
The SX-1 cam is the lowest cam in the PBS program. Lift and duration are comparable to stock, but the cam opens the valves much faster. So you get some of the advantages of a hot cam (more mixture into the cylinder) without the disadvantage of reduced torque. The downside is valve noise due to the fast opening.
I have that cam in my motor now, but want to try the next step up, the S2.
I don't know what speed I am at in 3rd. I only look at the tach
The later 1300s had a shorter final drive ratio, giving you higher revs in all the gears compared to my early 4speed. This means that at 60mph up hill, your car will be at a higher rpm and have more power available. But it also means higher revs on the interstate at cruising speed.
If you look in a cylinder head, usually the vertical wall of the combustion chamber is quite close to the valve head on one side. So when the valve opens, and the mixture wants to rush in, it "runs into a wall". If you can move the wall away from the valve head (and maybe angle in back), you get better flow.
A lighter flywheel would be nice. Also cheap from PBS ($55 exchange), but of course you have to drop the tranny. It also helps more in the lower gears when the engine is trying to spool up real fast.
So, if you don't want higher CR because of octane problems, and you don't care much about torque, you could install DCNFs, a header, a PBS reground cam or performance cam from another vendor (a 40/80 or 35/75) and you should have a high rpm screamer without even pulling the head. A lighter flywheel should help in the lower gears.
This is not an optimized engine, but should be good fun for little work.
Ulix
chasing ponies<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sound advice from Ulix as usual!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 4 1999, 7:57 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks for that explanation, Ulix. I would not have been able to say it so clearly myself... plus, I am glad to have others participating in the doling-out of tips and advice. I only know everything *some* of the time
I agree with darn near everything Ulix has said, and I can only think of one thing to add: Using a lightened flywheel may decrease your ability to pull steep hills. I don't know for fact, as I have stock flywheels on both of my cars (right now, anyway) but in theory the rotating mass of the flywheel helps to keep your momentum up when pulling a hill. If the weight of the flywheel decreases, you may lose a little of that forward momentum on hills a bit faster than you do with a stock flywheel. Can anyone confirm wether this is true from experience?
I always prefer experience over theory!!
-Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Not quite<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 9:42 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac,
that would be true if the hill is so steep that when you hit it, the car actually slows down.
But Stu is talking about powering up the hill, accelerating past everyone else!
The lightened flywheel helps to change rpm quickly.
So it would have the biggest impact in 1st gear, because you go through it the fastest. It would have progressively less effect at the higher gears.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->A small observation<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 1:38 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Sounds a pretty good combination for a racer, but you may want to rethink on the lighter flywheel if you want to maintain driveability at low revs. With a lumpy cam and increased breathing and fuelling the car is going to lose at low revs and the heavier flywheel will help to keep it spinning - it won't rev as quickly, but it won't stall and kangeroo so much either.
As for the 1500 - my "stock" 1500 revs right round the clock and is still pulling at 8k. The only difference I have over the standard fed. spec. 1500 is the induction and the exhaust. The 1300 is more reliable at higher revs because of the lower piston speed, but the 1500 is only slightly less rev hungry (from experience) and the extra capacity makes a BIG difference to torque. I agree on the exhaust though - the 4-1 exhaust I fitted to replace the stock 4-2-1 has reduced the top of the power band, but the car flys at lower revs thanks to the increase in torque, but it still pulls even at 6500rpm in fifth gear (totally illegal speed of course)
Julian<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 9:25 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good suggestions I'm going to go for the cam upgrade. Do I have to use stronger valve springs with the hotter cam? Ulix did you notice much improvement with the cam you currently have and why are you changing to another?
So far my plan it to pull the engine and balance the cylinder volume, pistons, rods, etc. I plan on porting and polishing but I was wondering how much difference headers would make power wise over the stock exhaust (sans cat.).
If I go with the dual dcnf's the intake manifold will have to change I assume. Where can I get a proper one?
How much is the flywheel lightened by? Sitting in stop and go traffic with a lumpy engine doesn't seem desirable. I assume that the lighter cam basically has an advantage in spinning up faster thus more accel. Is there a sig. diff. at higher rpms?
Thanks for all the ideas and help. Stu <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 10:09 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu,
no, you don't need different valve springs on an X1/9.
I installed my cam together with the big valve head, so I can't tell you how much difference just the cam makes. I want a slightly hotter cam because the rest of my engine is such that it will be able to take advantage of it, DCNFs, big ports, big valves, header. I want to make power to 8000 and a little beyond. If I don't like it, I can go back to the old cam.
So you are going to pull the engine all apart???
Why? Does it need it?
I wouldn't do that just to balance it. But if you do, make sure you have the rotating masses balanced as well, crank, flywheel, clutch.
Increasing the size of the intake ports may be beneficial on 1300, but I am not sure. If the intake valve size is more restrictive, it won't do you any good. According to PBS, the exhaust valve and port is not restrictive, so don't mess with it.
Polishing won't do you much good either.
A DCNF manifold can be had from PBS for $155 I think. If the DCNFs you are getting don't come with a manifold, don't pay to much for them.
Used sets in working order incl. manifold and linkage usually go for $500 or a little less, complete sets that need rebuilding go for $300 to $350. A brand new set is $1100.
What size are those DCNFs anyway? You could use 36s or 40s.
A good exaust should help you a lot since you have the more restrictive later manifold.
As you noted before, the flow through the engine is limited by the weakest link. If you install DCNFs, you should improve flow on the exhaust side as well and make sure your head flows well too (i.e. no 1100 intake ports).
I can't remember how much the flywheel is lightened, not all that much. The behavior of your engine in traffic will be impacted the most be having a hot cam and low compression. It will do pretty well at high rpm, but may be a dog down low.
The lighter flywheel will help get through the low rpm and into the powerband faster, but if I were you, I'd go for a compression increase. You could use a 1100 head and remove some material in the chamber to deshroud the valves. This will reduce your comprssion ratio (CR) some and if you get lucky, you could get it to 9:1 or so which you may be able to run with low grade pump gas
I think you should come down here, drive my car to see what you can expect and then you could pretty much duplicate my engine (maybe not do the big valve head, just port the 1100 head, you'd save close to $500).
Ulix
DCNFs are on the engine, but not hooked up yet
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 12:06 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The carbs are 40's and I don't know anything about them yet. The engine was getting about 160lbs compression in all the cyl. about 60,000 km ago but now its using oil so I thought it would be worthwhile doing it all this winter. I assumed that the crank comes balanced and I'm not sure how you balance a clutch. If I get a lightened flywheel from pbs does this come balanced or do I have to mount the clutch and balance the two together?
The idea of a using an 1100 head and opening it up to drop the compression back to 9.1 is interesting but it seems easier to just use the existing head. I don't think that I would be any further ahead without a compression increase and I really don't want to pay 10c/liter more for gas considering the milage I drive this could get expensive. What kind of gas milage do you expect with the 40's and do you have a picture of the installation?
Whats a big valve head?
I can live with the low end being a dog but I assume that a lightened balanced engine should spool up quickly enough to at least offset the effect of the hotter cam. Does PBS have the actual specs of the cam posted anywhere?
Driving your car would be a great experience and I would love to try it when you have everything up and dialed in. I would still like to see a tech day and maybe cylinder balancing and carb tuning would be a good topic. Thanks for the inspiration. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 3:42 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Since you are going to rebuild the engine anyway, take the crank to a machine shop. They will balance it, then mount the flywheel and balance again, then the clutch and balance again. This way, the crank is balanced by itself so that if you change flywheel or clucth, the assembly will remain balanced.
Yes, the PBS flywheel comes balanced.
I don't know about the gas mileage and I don't have any pictures yet since I am still in the process of mounting the carbs. Actually I started the car an hour ago, but the carbs flooded because I have too much fuel pressure. Need to go buy a pressure regulator.
Cam specs are on the PBS site.
Ulix
back to the garage...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 10:20 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->http://www.mirafiori.com/pbs/pbssohc.html
You can find a price list and camshaft table at
www.pbseng.com
Ulix
P.S. The writeup states that 1100, 1300 and 1500 intake ports are roughly the same size. I don't think that is correct.
I also suggests (I think) that increasing port size w/o increasing valve size is still beneficial...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 9:46 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I just drove Scott Phelps' 1500 for a day. His car has DCNFs, 40/80 cam, PBS lightened flywheel, header etc.
It idles without a problem at 800rpm even when ice cold. It pulls cleanly off the line, it's just amazing.
But, the PBS lightened flywheel is not a race flywheel. It has been lightened as much as practical for strenght. A real race aluminum flywheel would probably have the effect that Julian describes.
Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 12:10 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Any idea as to the weight of one of these? I think I probably should keep a decent amount of rotational mass but I like the idea of a quick spool up for passing on the hills. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 5 1999, 3:13 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have a tilton aliminum flywheel in my '74 1300. The flywheel along with the ring gear, clutch cover, friction plate, drive plate, spring plate and release bearing, packed in boxes and shipped to me from Tilton, weighed in at 9 lbs.
A stock flywheel is 16 lbs before you add the 10 lbs clutch. A typical lighted stock steel flywheel come in at about 10 to 12 lbs without the clutch.
When I had the tilton in my 1300 on fuel injection, drivablity was not a problem. It would idle fine and pull away from a stop with no fuss (other than the grabby clutch). Now with a much peakier motor in the '74, drivability is more of a problem, but not because of the light flywheel and clutch.
I have lightened flywheels in ALL of my X1/9s and love them. Wouldn't have an X without one.
You literally cannot get the clutch/flywheel too light in an X. A peaky motor makes for a difficult car to launch, but the flywheel has little effect on it.
I would recommend using a lightened steel unit instead of an aluminum flywheel. No one I know of makes a decent aluminum unit other than tilton and the tilton unit is not intended for daily service. Not to mention the $1000 price tag.
Steve<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]November 6 1999, 2:59 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks to all who chimed in on this topic, I am getting a good education from you all!
-Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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