<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Which is better 1300 or 1500<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000 at 8:10 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I am hoping to get one of my x's back together (have to for July 1st thanks to Mac) and I am trying to decide which one. The bodies are equal but one engine is a 1300 and one is a 1500. At the risk of starting a religious war I am interested in your opinion as to which one I should rebuild. I drive the car over 100 miles to work and back every day so gas mileage is important. The roads are twisty with some big hills and the hills are the only places with passing lanes so I need power to pass uphill. Anyway I would appreciate your thoughts as to which I should rebuild and any mods that should be included. Thanks for your help. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("grady"); // --> </SCRIPT>grady <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Smog legal?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 8:57 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->On unsmogged cars the 1500 would be my choice ... bigger engine = more power, and 5th gear is kinda nice on the flats.
If you intend on keeping the emision controls then I would go with the 1300 - they seem "peppier" and alot less "strangled" ... and who needs 5th gear anyway?
I'm guessing you're not keeping the smog equipment though... "need power to pass uphill." <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Daniel Forest"); // --> </SCRIPT>Daniel Forest <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1300 or 1500???<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 9:22 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi,
I know you said the bodies are equal but I would take a deeper look and rebuild the better body. This is the most important. After that you could easily swap engines since you got all the parts already.
The 1300cc is higher revving and the 4 speed is more robust. The 1500cc got more power, torque and the 5th speed is really a nice thing to have if you are doing some highway or hi-speed drives.
I would choose the 1500cc. In fact, I did. With a twin carb, Ansa, lowered suspension, etc.
Have fun!
Daniel Forest
1980 X1/9
Montreal<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Wise words<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 11:15 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Daniel is right, choose the better car.
I also would go with the 1500.
Is the 5-speed in good shape?
For passing, you should install a mild cam, a Yugo head (or shave your stock head) and a header. I guess this is a 1500 carb car with the smog carb? Get a carb from a 1300 car or a 34DMTR.
The engine will pull strong to 6500 or 7000 and will be nice for passing.
If you need to pass uphill, think about weight. Maybe get rid of the bumpers?
Ulix
http://www.mirafiori.com/~ulix
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve Hoelscher"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Decisions, Decisions....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 8:26 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have both a 1300 and a 1500, and have had several of each.
Do you prefer Blonds or Brunets? Chocolate or Vanilla?
I like Blonds and Brunets, Chocolate and Vanilla, 1300s and 1500s.
Each has slightly different character than the other: The 1300 is a livelier motor (it is VERY oversquare). Loves to rev and prefers to turn lots of rpm. A light flywheel, some intake and exhaust work and some more camshaft and you have a sweet reving little motor that will get you around just fine. But you must be willing to turn the rpm to make it work. The 1500 responds well to the same kind of tuning, but makes its power about 1000 rpm lower on the tach. Consequently it will pull a gear taller than the 1300 in most circumstances. The performance and milage of the two motors are pretty equal, so that isn't as much of an issue as you might think.
Steve
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->great thread!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 12:14 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->You guys are really nailing this thread so far - I agree with the appraisals of 1300 vs 1500; they are both uniquely similar
The wisest words spoken in this thread so far are, "look deeply & pick the best body"!
How did you conclude that the bodies are more-or-less equal? Have you done any structural rust exams etc? What are your findings? Now you all have got me excited!
-Mac.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("ric martin"); // --> </SCRIPT>ric martin <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->this is gr8!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 12 2000, 12:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->i agree,its hard to decide on the 1300 vs. 1500..
both have their advantages, but like he said.....which body?.......i prefer the earlier ones<smile><!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The 1300/1500 drag race<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 10:15 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Recently, Mike Mittelstead and I drover around some nice roads near his house to check out each others car. The intersting thing was that our cars had exactly the same power. One time, accelerating away from a stop sign, we both got on it at the same time, giving all we had through first and second, winding the engines to 7000. I was driving Mike's car and really was too close to the bumper of my car to be doing this, but the whole time the distance between the cars did not change. This was an interesting experiment and it gives me some ideas of how much power my engine has.
Mike's 1500:
• head shaved for 10:1 CR
• Faza 35/75
• '74 intake manifold with '74 32DATRA carb, K&N
• '74 exhaust manifold and downpipes into custom exhaust system with turbo muffler
This is a nice engine, it is well behaved in town and traffic due to the single carb, but pulls strongly to 7000rpm. The idle is a little high and a little lumpy due to cam/single carb combo.
Ulix' 1300:
• PBS big valve head, CR somewhere between 9.2:1 and 9.4:1
• PBS S2 reground cam
• 40DCNFs with 30mm venturis on PBS intake, K&N
• PBS header into custom exhaust system with single muffler
This engine runs ok below 3200 only with little throttle. When you open the throttle below that, the noise increases but not the speed. At around 3200, it suddenly comes on the cam, and accelerates nicely, at 4000 it really starts to pull. It gets a little flat at 7500, but will go to 8000 if it has to. The sound is phenomenal from 4000 on. Idle is much better, the dual carbs smoothen out the idle. Sometimes when not quite warm yet, the engine will idle below 500rpm without stumbling.
When I drive around town, I hardly notice the lack of low end unless I suddenly need to accelerate. If I just floor it, there is a big disappointment. I had to change my driving style to get around this. I would like to try a stock euro cam, but with my current setup (lengthened valves) I can only run regrinds.
I was impressed how well Mike's engine revs and how nicely it pulls to 7000.
Obviously, his engine could be duplicated for less money than mine, except that you would have to get a cam from somewhere (Vicks?) and have the exhaust made unless you are a welder.
A euro 1500 has 85hp. It has a lower CR, "colder" cam, same exhaust manifold but less efficient exhaust, and a 34mm instead of a 32mm carb.
So very conservatively, Mike's car should have 90-95hp. This would mean that my car is in the same ballpark (my car is a little lighter).
So I have gone from 66hp to ~90hp. Pretty cool.
I am still planning on getting on a dyno to optimize jetting, ignition timing, and maybe cam timing.
I feel that the key to a nice engine tuning package is a combination of hotter cam, more compression and improved breathing. These three work together and should all be addressed.
Ulix (smallblock underdog)
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Mike"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mike <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My options<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 1:11 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have a FI 1500. I'm considering the 9.2 Cr pistons from Vick's with their stage1 cam. Next I have the original fuel injection head and the fi System OR I also have a 1300 Head that I could use with Carbs or mod for injection.
My original intention was to retain the injection since I already have it. and I like injection for dependability. But to make the best use of the pistons and cam would require some mods to the system. I'm currently reading all I can on FI.
The intention here is to make a good strong street engine. I drive fast and hard but I don't want to loose too much in drivability.
Any comment /suggestion would be apreciated
Cheers
Mike<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Courtney Waters"); // --> </SCRIPT>Courtney Waters <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->engine mods<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 4:28 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The 1500 fuel injection system would actually work quite well with the pistons and cam. I know a couple people running much hotter engines (9.8:1, big-valve head, '74 exhaust, cam) that use the stock injection. The only modification to the fuel injection was to adjust the AFM slightly. No big injectors, rising rate regulators, etc. Plus, the pistons and a cam would put you somewhere around what a stock euro car would have.
The 1300 head wouldn't do much for you (plus you'd have to ditch the injection). Check out Lalo's tech page, for some compression ratio tests and calculations we did: http://home.netcom.com/~la_migra/Tech/Comp_Ratio.html
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Mike"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mike <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I remeber<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 4:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I read that page before but forgot. too many thing running through my head I guess.
I will also use PBS's header. The Big valve head is an option but will depends how much I'm willing to spend on the engine.
Thanks
Mike<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "g"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->excellent<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 12:33 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Courtney, you & Lalo did a great job on that page. Nice to see it all laid out like that for our collective viewing pleasure!
It makes me curious - is anyone out there running a 1300 Yugo head on a 1500 X block with FI? Or is this a situation where folks tend to go with dual carbs? -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steve Hoelscher"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steve Hoelscher <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->probably...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 4:43 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->But I can't think of one right off the top of my head. It certainly could be done easy enough and should work fine.
I drove Scott Phelps' '78 X equipped with a 1500, Yugo head and dual 40 DCNFs. A torquey sucker, not much above 6200 rpm though. I think with some work, there is plenty to be had there.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "A";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "-";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Stu Brennan"); // --> </SCRIPT>Stu Brennan <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Decisions Decisions 1300 or 1500<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 16 2000, 2:31 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have decided that I will rebuild the 1500 since I already have a couple of 1300's and this way I can have the best of both worlds and do my own comparison. I think the body on the white one I have is a tiny bit better but both are reasonable.
I dont want to increase the compression since higher octane gas would considerably increase my commuting costs. This pretty much rules out doing the head.
Both have fuel injection so I am going keep this and save the cost of carbs for now at least. Do you usually replace the injectors?
What cam would be a good match with this combination?
Does anybody have a parts list for a rebuild on a 1500. I will have to order them and I am sure to forget something so a list to double check would be great if you have one. Anyway thanks for the ideas and info and I hope to see you on the first.
P.S. Any suggestions for parts suppliers would be welcome.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Vick's & Obert's & more...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 16 2000, 4:17 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->There are some great vendors, some more good vendors, and even more still that range on down the scale. A sampling of all types of vendors is listed on our site's linkpage. We do not discriminate on the linkpage (thus the disclaimer there about doing your own research & choosing wisely)...
I can not speak for anyone else, but I have had best luck personally with Vick Autosport and C. Obert's, with the occasional buy from IAP or Bruce's. I am sure others can add some good suggestions here as well!! (hint hint) -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "w";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u"; document.write("Courtney Waters"); // --> </SCRIPT>Courtney Waters <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thanks<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 11:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Lalo did the page. I just supplied heads and helped cc them. It was nice to finally get some real data, as opposed to pure speculation.
I haven't heard of anyone running a Yugo head (1300 or 1100, should be the same) on a 1500 w/ FI. I've considered it for a FI engine I'll be building in the future for my 128. Cutting reliefs in the intake ports for the injectors would be easy enough, but there is a coolant temp sensor for the FI that I couldn't figure out a good location for. I'd either have to have a piece of aluminum welded to the head that I could drill & tap, or figure out some other way to install it. Oh, and the head bolt holes on the Yugo head I have are 2mm smaller than the Fiat holes, so those would have to be drilled out (some Yugo heads have the larger holes though).
When you look at the price of the head, time to pull it from a junkyard car, and machine work (fortunately I could do this myself), a set of high compression pistons doesn't seem all that bad.
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000 at 8:10 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Stu Brennan [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I am hoping to get one of my x's back together (have to for July 1st thanks to Mac) and I am trying to decide which one. The bodies are equal but one engine is a 1300 and one is a 1500. At the risk of starting a religious war I am interested in your opinion as to which one I should rebuild. I drive the car over 100 miles to work and back every day so gas mileage is important. The roads are twisty with some big hills and the hills are the only places with passing lanes so I need power to pass uphill. Anyway I would appreciate your thoughts as to which I should rebuild and any mods that should be included. Thanks for your help. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Smog legal?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 8:57 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->On unsmogged cars the 1500 would be my choice ... bigger engine = more power, and 5th gear is kinda nice on the flats.
If you intend on keeping the emision controls then I would go with the 1300 - they seem "peppier" and alot less "strangled" ... and who needs 5th gear anyway?
I'm guessing you're not keeping the smog equipment though... "need power to pass uphill." <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->1300 or 1500???<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 9:22 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi,
I know you said the bodies are equal but I would take a deeper look and rebuild the better body. This is the most important. After that you could easily swap engines since you got all the parts already.
The 1300cc is higher revving and the 4 speed is more robust. The 1500cc got more power, torque and the 5th speed is really a nice thing to have if you are doing some highway or hi-speed drives.
I would choose the 1500cc. In fact, I did. With a twin carb, Ansa, lowered suspension, etc.
Have fun!
Daniel Forest
1980 X1/9
Montreal<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Wise words<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 11:15 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Daniel is right, choose the better car.
I also would go with the 1500.
Is the 5-speed in good shape?
For passing, you should install a mild cam, a Yugo head (or shave your stock head) and a header. I guess this is a 1500 carb car with the smog carb? Get a carb from a 1300 car or a 34DMTR.
The engine will pull strong to 6500 or 7000 and will be nice for passing.
If you need to pass uphill, think about weight. Maybe get rid of the bumpers?
Ulix
http://www.mirafiori.com/~ulix
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Decisions, Decisions....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 9 2000, 8:26 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have both a 1300 and a 1500, and have had several of each.
Do you prefer Blonds or Brunets? Chocolate or Vanilla?
I like Blonds and Brunets, Chocolate and Vanilla, 1300s and 1500s.
Each has slightly different character than the other: The 1300 is a livelier motor (it is VERY oversquare). Loves to rev and prefers to turn lots of rpm. A light flywheel, some intake and exhaust work and some more camshaft and you have a sweet reving little motor that will get you around just fine. But you must be willing to turn the rpm to make it work. The 1500 responds well to the same kind of tuning, but makes its power about 1000 rpm lower on the tach. Consequently it will pull a gear taller than the 1300 in most circumstances. The performance and milage of the two motors are pretty equal, so that isn't as much of an issue as you might think.
Steve
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->great thread!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 12:14 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->You guys are really nailing this thread so far - I agree with the appraisals of 1300 vs 1500; they are both uniquely similar
The wisest words spoken in this thread so far are, "look deeply & pick the best body"!
How did you conclude that the bodies are more-or-less equal? Have you done any structural rust exams etc? What are your findings? Now you all have got me excited!
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->this is gr8!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 12 2000, 12:50 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->i agree,its hard to decide on the 1300 vs. 1500..
both have their advantages, but like he said.....which body?.......i prefer the earlier ones<smile><!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The 1300/1500 drag race<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 10:15 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Recently, Mike Mittelstead and I drover around some nice roads near his house to check out each others car. The intersting thing was that our cars had exactly the same power. One time, accelerating away from a stop sign, we both got on it at the same time, giving all we had through first and second, winding the engines to 7000. I was driving Mike's car and really was too close to the bumper of my car to be doing this, but the whole time the distance between the cars did not change. This was an interesting experiment and it gives me some ideas of how much power my engine has.
Mike's 1500:
• head shaved for 10:1 CR
• Faza 35/75
• '74 intake manifold with '74 32DATRA carb, K&N
• '74 exhaust manifold and downpipes into custom exhaust system with turbo muffler
This is a nice engine, it is well behaved in town and traffic due to the single carb, but pulls strongly to 7000rpm. The idle is a little high and a little lumpy due to cam/single carb combo.
Ulix' 1300:
• PBS big valve head, CR somewhere between 9.2:1 and 9.4:1
• PBS S2 reground cam
• 40DCNFs with 30mm venturis on PBS intake, K&N
• PBS header into custom exhaust system with single muffler
This engine runs ok below 3200 only with little throttle. When you open the throttle below that, the noise increases but not the speed. At around 3200, it suddenly comes on the cam, and accelerates nicely, at 4000 it really starts to pull. It gets a little flat at 7500, but will go to 8000 if it has to. The sound is phenomenal from 4000 on. Idle is much better, the dual carbs smoothen out the idle. Sometimes when not quite warm yet, the engine will idle below 500rpm without stumbling.
When I drive around town, I hardly notice the lack of low end unless I suddenly need to accelerate. If I just floor it, there is a big disappointment. I had to change my driving style to get around this. I would like to try a stock euro cam, but with my current setup (lengthened valves) I can only run regrinds.
I was impressed how well Mike's engine revs and how nicely it pulls to 7000.
Obviously, his engine could be duplicated for less money than mine, except that you would have to get a cam from somewhere (Vicks?) and have the exhaust made unless you are a welder.
A euro 1500 has 85hp. It has a lower CR, "colder" cam, same exhaust manifold but less efficient exhaust, and a 34mm instead of a 32mm carb.
So very conservatively, Mike's car should have 90-95hp. This would mean that my car is in the same ballpark (my car is a little lighter).
So I have gone from 66hp to ~90hp. Pretty cool.
I am still planning on getting on a dyno to optimize jetting, ignition timing, and maybe cam timing.
I feel that the key to a nice engine tuning package is a combination of hotter cam, more compression and improved breathing. These three work together and should all be addressed.
Ulix (smallblock underdog)
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->My options<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 1:11 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have a FI 1500. I'm considering the 9.2 Cr pistons from Vick's with their stage1 cam. Next I have the original fuel injection head and the fi System OR I also have a 1300 Head that I could use with Carbs or mod for injection.
My original intention was to retain the injection since I already have it. and I like injection for dependability. But to make the best use of the pistons and cam would require some mods to the system. I'm currently reading all I can on FI.
The intention here is to make a good strong street engine. I drive fast and hard but I don't want to loose too much in drivability.
Any comment /suggestion would be apreciated
Cheers
Mike<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->engine mods<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 4:28 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The 1500 fuel injection system would actually work quite well with the pistons and cam. I know a couple people running much hotter engines (9.8:1, big-valve head, '74 exhaust, cam) that use the stock injection. The only modification to the fuel injection was to adjust the AFM slightly. No big injectors, rising rate regulators, etc. Plus, the pistons and a cam would put you somewhere around what a stock euro car would have.
The 1300 head wouldn't do much for you (plus you'd have to ditch the injection). Check out Lalo's tech page, for some compression ratio tests and calculations we did: http://home.netcom.com/~la_migra/Tech/Comp_Ratio.html
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I remeber<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 10 2000, 4:58 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I read that page before but forgot. too many thing running through my head I guess.
I will also use PBS's header. The Big valve head is an option but will depends how much I'm willing to spend on the engine.
Thanks
Mike<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->excellent<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 12:33 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Courtney, you & Lalo did a great job on that page. Nice to see it all laid out like that for our collective viewing pleasure!
It makes me curious - is anyone out there running a 1300 Yugo head on a 1500 X block with FI? Or is this a situation where folks tend to go with dual carbs? -Mac.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->probably...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 4:43 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->But I can't think of one right off the top of my head. It certainly could be done easy enough and should work fine.
I drove Scott Phelps' '78 X equipped with a 1500, Yugo head and dual 40 DCNFs. A torquey sucker, not much above 6200 rpm though. I think with some work, there is plenty to be had there.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Decisions Decisions 1300 or 1500<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 16 2000, 2:31 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have decided that I will rebuild the 1500 since I already have a couple of 1300's and this way I can have the best of both worlds and do my own comparison. I think the body on the white one I have is a tiny bit better but both are reasonable.
I dont want to increase the compression since higher octane gas would considerably increase my commuting costs. This pretty much rules out doing the head.
Both have fuel injection so I am going keep this and save the cost of carbs for now at least. Do you usually replace the injectors?
What cam would be a good match with this combination?
Does anybody have a parts list for a rebuild on a 1500. I will have to order them and I am sure to forget something so a list to double check would be great if you have one. Anyway thanks for the ideas and info and I hope to see you on the first.
P.S. Any suggestions for parts suppliers would be welcome.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Vick's & Obert's & more...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 16 2000, 4:17 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->There are some great vendors, some more good vendors, and even more still that range on down the scale. A sampling of all types of vendors is listed on our site's linkpage. We do not discriminate on the linkpage (thus the disclaimer there about doing your own research & choosing wisely)...
I can not speak for anyone else, but I have had best luck personally with Vick Autosport and C. Obert's, with the occasional buy from IAP or Bruce's. I am sure others can add some good suggestions here as well!! (hint hint) -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thanks<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 11 2000, 11:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Lalo did the page. I just supplied heads and helped cc them. It was nice to finally get some real data, as opposed to pure speculation.
I haven't heard of anyone running a Yugo head (1300 or 1100, should be the same) on a 1500 w/ FI. I've considered it for a FI engine I'll be building in the future for my 128. Cutting reliefs in the intake ports for the injectors would be easy enough, but there is a coolant temp sensor for the FI that I couldn't figure out a good location for. I'd either have to have a piece of aluminum welded to the head that I could drill & tap, or figure out some other way to install it. Oh, and the head bolt holes on the Yugo head I have are 2mm smaller than the Fiat holes, so those would have to be drilled out (some Yugo heads have the larger holes though).
When you look at the price of the head, time to pull it from a junkyard car, and machine work (fortunately I could do this myself), a set of high compression pistons doesn't seem all that bad.
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