moretti124guy
Daily Driver
Looks like it once was an X.
X1/9 based?
- Thread starter moretti124guy
- Start date
Quantumleap
Rich Banks
Looks like they used the ultra rare Cizeta Morodor as inspiration...
interestingly enough, the Cizeta was designed by our own X designer, Marcello Gandini, who also penned the Countach and later, the Diablo.
Gandini drew up this car BEFORE the Diablo and in reading and article with an interview he did, the Cizeta is what he wanted the Diablo to look like originally. JJ probably has pics of the Cizeta from a past Crystal Cove or C&C...I remember a red one somewhere. Cheers! -RB
interestingly enough, the Cizeta was designed by our own X designer, Marcello Gandini, who also penned the Countach and later, the Diablo.
Gandini drew up this car BEFORE the Diablo and in reading and article with an interview he did, the Cizeta is what he wanted the Diablo to look like originally. JJ probably has pics of the Cizeta from a past Crystal Cove or C&C...I remember a red one somewhere. Cheers! -RB
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DuaneEstill
Banned User
Cizeta Moroder
Now that is an interesting car.
V16....probably one of the few in existence, that is, in a car.
It was Gandini designed. The famous Lambo Ferrari repair man in L.A. Claudio Zampolli, seen in Sammy Hagar's "I can't drive 55" video was half interest, with the other guy being "Moroder."
That car was a monster, 0-60 in 4 seconds, and that was in 91-92, outlandishly fast. There are only two or so in existence as the firm never got this car, or any other, into production.
You can clearly see that Gandini is in "Diablo" mode, and surely must have spent some time looking at the Ferrari Testarossa, a la 'cheese grater' strakes on the side. Whether or not this is a true Gandini design is in question as Zampolli is credited for it in some places. Maybe Gandini did the initial design.....and they changed it.
V16......truly a monster. Probably never see on of those again.
Now that is an interesting car.
V16....probably one of the few in existence, that is, in a car.
It was Gandini designed. The famous Lambo Ferrari repair man in L.A. Claudio Zampolli, seen in Sammy Hagar's "I can't drive 55" video was half interest, with the other guy being "Moroder."
That car was a monster, 0-60 in 4 seconds, and that was in 91-92, outlandishly fast. There are only two or so in existence as the firm never got this car, or any other, into production.
You can clearly see that Gandini is in "Diablo" mode, and surely must have spent some time looking at the Ferrari Testarossa, a la 'cheese grater' strakes on the side. Whether or not this is a true Gandini design is in question as Zampolli is credited for it in some places. Maybe Gandini did the initial design.....and they changed it.
V16......truly a monster. Probably never see on of those again.
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Quantumleap
Rich Banks
Got this off Wiki...
Cizeta Automobili srl of Modena, Italy was a car manufacturer set up in the late 1980s by Claudio Zampolli (an Italian Ferrari dealer) and the record producer Giorgio Moroder.
The name "Cizeta" comes from the Italian pronunciation of co-founder Claudio Zampolli's initials (C.Z.). Moroder became involved into the project when he took his Lamborghini Countach for a service at Zampolli's garage. Their only product, the Cizeta-Moroder V16T, featured a technically advanced sixteen cylinder engine made up of two coupled V8's sharing a single block. Styled by Marcello Gandini, the body was strikingly similar to the later Lamborghini Diablo's as Gandini first proposed the design to the then Chrysler-owned Lamborghini, which altered the concept significantly. Gandini then brought the original Diablo design to Cizeta. The prototype was the only car to carry the "Cizeta-Moroder" badge, as Giorgio Moroder pulled out of the Cizeta project in 1990. The prototype remains with Giorgio Moroder to this day.
No production Cizeta was ever badged "Cizeta-Moroder" but merely "Cizeta V16T". Only 8 cars were built before the shutdown of the firm in 1994. Subsequently, 2 more cars were completed (one more coupe, and one spyder) in 1999 and 2003.
Mr. Zampolli moved to the USA after the company went bankrupt in Italy and has set up a new company in California, called Cizeta Automobili USA. He currently services exotic cars as well as continues to build (on demand) the Cizeta V16T.
Cizeta Automobili srl of Modena, Italy was a car manufacturer set up in the late 1980s by Claudio Zampolli (an Italian Ferrari dealer) and the record producer Giorgio Moroder.
The name "Cizeta" comes from the Italian pronunciation of co-founder Claudio Zampolli's initials (C.Z.). Moroder became involved into the project when he took his Lamborghini Countach for a service at Zampolli's garage. Their only product, the Cizeta-Moroder V16T, featured a technically advanced sixteen cylinder engine made up of two coupled V8's sharing a single block. Styled by Marcello Gandini, the body was strikingly similar to the later Lamborghini Diablo's as Gandini first proposed the design to the then Chrysler-owned Lamborghini, which altered the concept significantly. Gandini then brought the original Diablo design to Cizeta. The prototype was the only car to carry the "Cizeta-Moroder" badge, as Giorgio Moroder pulled out of the Cizeta project in 1990. The prototype remains with Giorgio Moroder to this day.
No production Cizeta was ever badged "Cizeta-Moroder" but merely "Cizeta V16T". Only 8 cars were built before the shutdown of the firm in 1994. Subsequently, 2 more cars were completed (one more coupe, and one spyder) in 1999 and 2003.
Mr. Zampolli moved to the USA after the company went bankrupt in Italy and has set up a new company in California, called Cizeta Automobili USA. He currently services exotic cars as well as continues to build (on demand) the Cizeta V16T.
DuaneEstill
Banned User
Wikipedia is NOT reliable.
Never rely on Wiki. It has incorrect references that are reproduced from other incorrect references. That total production figure of 8 and the whole Spider story is speculation at best. Most reliable sources point to two in existence, the red one and the white one, and there are none in Italy under cover.
Zampolli is Italian, but he was not a Ferrari dealer in Italy, or America, never had that large of a business. Moroder was the money end of the CZ Moroder deal but he didn't have enough to float a car company.
Zampolli serviced Ferraris and Lamborghinis in his shop in Van Nuys, California from way back in the 60's and 70's, and still does. He's also suing Jay Leno for 150 million dollars for defamation of character. He's also known for getting Edward Van Halen to call Sammy Haggar after David Lee Roth quit....."You should call Sammy..." Van Halen drove a Countache while Haggar had a 512BB, which he still has, and was featured in the "I can't drive 55.", and has several other Ferraris.
Never rely on Wiki. It has incorrect references that are reproduced from other incorrect references. That total production figure of 8 and the whole Spider story is speculation at best. Most reliable sources point to two in existence, the red one and the white one, and there are none in Italy under cover.
Zampolli is Italian, but he was not a Ferrari dealer in Italy, or America, never had that large of a business. Moroder was the money end of the CZ Moroder deal but he didn't have enough to float a car company.
Zampolli serviced Ferraris and Lamborghinis in his shop in Van Nuys, California from way back in the 60's and 70's, and still does. He's also suing Jay Leno for 150 million dollars for defamation of character. He's also known for getting Edward Van Halen to call Sammy Haggar after David Lee Roth quit....."You should call Sammy..." Van Halen drove a Countache while Haggar had a 512BB, which he still has, and was featured in the "I can't drive 55.", and has several other Ferraris.
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Quantumleap
Rich Banks
Some random pics of Cizetas....
Quantumleap
Rich Banks
I did some more digging...
and found that the Wiki article was spot-on, although I do agree that some info supplied to Wikipedia is sometimes inaccurate, there were no inaccuracies here as far as the number of cars actually produced, a total of ten. Here's a black one...
Here's the roadster...
Same roadster at Concorso Italiano in '03
and found that the Wiki article was spot-on, although I do agree that some info supplied to Wikipedia is sometimes inaccurate, there were no inaccuracies here as far as the number of cars actually produced, a total of ten. Here's a black one...
Here's the roadster...
Same roadster at Concorso Italiano in '03
John Allen
True Classic
the "T" in the name
IIRC, the "T" in the V16T was due to the unique shape of the engine/transmission. The trans was longitude (ala Porsche 914), while the engine was transverse - driving the transmission from the center of the 2 cranks and forming a "T" shape from above. I believe the 2 cranks rotated in opposite directions instead of one long crank and used a bevel gear set to the trans - in essense 2 V8 engines mated to one trans. In a wierd way it reminds me of the old multi-engined machines in the tractor pulls!
I had once considered a version of this drivetrain when I was designing a kit car many years back.
IIRC, the "T" in the V16T was due to the unique shape of the engine/transmission. The trans was longitude (ala Porsche 914), while the engine was transverse - driving the transmission from the center of the 2 cranks and forming a "T" shape from above. I believe the 2 cranks rotated in opposite directions instead of one long crank and used a bevel gear set to the trans - in essense 2 V8 engines mated to one trans. In a wierd way it reminds me of the old multi-engined machines in the tractor pulls!
I had once considered a version of this drivetrain when I was designing a kit car many years back.
DuaneEstill
Banned User
Spot on???
Once again, don't trust Wiki. And, not to get into an argument, but spot-on compared to what??? Other google results?? That and a nickel wouldn't get you a cup of coffee. I'd like to think that I have some parts of the I-cars story together, maybe not all of this one.
But if it was spot on, how do you explain the reference to Zampolli as a Ferrari dealer? He never was. He may have owned a Lamborghini dealership for a few years, but that's it. Maybe he sold used Ferraris. He was actually a test driver for Lamborghini in Italy, so it makes sense, but he was never a Ferrari dealer. More than anything, he was well known as an exotic car repair service in Los Angeles and serviced the exotics of the celebrities.
Auto Italia Magazine article listed actual production at 7, with two of those going to the Sultan of Brunnei, but I was not citing that source, though it comports with the Wiki thing in there being a large number produced, but the total differs.
Further, that there were two more (supposedly) cobbled together hardly counts as "factory production", now does it? That's the first I've seen that he actually still builds them on demand. A quick phone call to Claudio's would likely clear that up.
I read the original Road & Track article years ago, that briefly tested the car, or, rode in it with Zampolli driving it around the streets of LA. At that point the company was foundering and production was in question, with only a few, they said 2, produced at that point. That certainly could have been incomplete. And it probably boils down to what 'production' means as it pertains to this. After the company goes belly up they scrap plans but still try to finish out what they have on the floor with what parts supplies they have? So...of course, there may have been eight or ten total cars made out of the original parts or whatever, but I doubt that, they could have been finished elsewhere by custom shops.
So it really boils down to how many complete, rolling cars they eventually managed to get out the door in a condition someone was willing to pay money for or to take somewhere else to have finished. That could, or could not, be...."production."
But who knows. Cool pictures.
Once again, don't trust Wiki. And, not to get into an argument, but spot-on compared to what??? Other google results?? That and a nickel wouldn't get you a cup of coffee. I'd like to think that I have some parts of the I-cars story together, maybe not all of this one.
But if it was spot on, how do you explain the reference to Zampolli as a Ferrari dealer? He never was. He may have owned a Lamborghini dealership for a few years, but that's it. Maybe he sold used Ferraris. He was actually a test driver for Lamborghini in Italy, so it makes sense, but he was never a Ferrari dealer. More than anything, he was well known as an exotic car repair service in Los Angeles and serviced the exotics of the celebrities.
Auto Italia Magazine article listed actual production at 7, with two of those going to the Sultan of Brunnei, but I was not citing that source, though it comports with the Wiki thing in there being a large number produced, but the total differs.
Further, that there were two more (supposedly) cobbled together hardly counts as "factory production", now does it? That's the first I've seen that he actually still builds them on demand. A quick phone call to Claudio's would likely clear that up.
I read the original Road & Track article years ago, that briefly tested the car, or, rode in it with Zampolli driving it around the streets of LA. At that point the company was foundering and production was in question, with only a few, they said 2, produced at that point. That certainly could have been incomplete. And it probably boils down to what 'production' means as it pertains to this. After the company goes belly up they scrap plans but still try to finish out what they have on the floor with what parts supplies they have? So...of course, there may have been eight or ten total cars made out of the original parts or whatever, but I doubt that, they could have been finished elsewhere by custom shops.
So it really boils down to how many complete, rolling cars they eventually managed to get out the door in a condition someone was willing to pay money for or to take somewhere else to have finished. That could, or could not, be...."production."
But who knows. Cool pictures.
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DuaneEstill
Banned User
Here is the Auto Italia article....
This is the Auto Italia article, featuring an interview with the man himself.
http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/CizetaV16T/index.html
This is the Auto Italia article, featuring an interview with the man himself.
http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/CizetaV16T/index.html
Similar in concept to...
Honda's 1.5 Litre V12 Grand Prix engine from the mid-sixties. The transmission took off from the center of the transverse engine and ran back in T-formation to the driveshaft centerline. The transmission was part of the engine casting and shared engine oil for lubrication. The engine had 4 valves per cylinder-I will leave it to your imagination to visualize the size of the valves in this head when you consider 1.5 litres spread over 12 cylinders. I believe it still the smallest cylinders to run 4 valves,at least in a racing engine. The crank was built-up to allow roller bearings and a low oil pressure. Although ultimately the most powerful engine of the normally aspirated 1.5 litre formula it only won one race as I recall-was bedeviled by cooling problems. It had been run mistakingly to 16,000 rpm without damage and one driver claimed to have seen 18,000 at one point.
Honda's 1.5 Litre V12 Grand Prix engine from the mid-sixties. The transmission took off from the center of the transverse engine and ran back in T-formation to the driveshaft centerline. The transmission was part of the engine casting and shared engine oil for lubrication. The engine had 4 valves per cylinder-I will leave it to your imagination to visualize the size of the valves in this head when you consider 1.5 litres spread over 12 cylinders. I believe it still the smallest cylinders to run 4 valves,at least in a racing engine. The crank was built-up to allow roller bearings and a low oil pressure. Although ultimately the most powerful engine of the normally aspirated 1.5 litre formula it only won one race as I recall-was bedeviled by cooling problems. It had been run mistakingly to 16,000 rpm without damage and one driver claimed to have seen 18,000 at one point.
John Allen
True Classic
Yes, the RA270. It was also air-cooled - very light weight.
This link shows what it looked like. The images are fully computer modeled and rendered - pretty amazing!
http://www.automotto.org/entry/honda-ra270-f1-prototype-digitized/
The next year the engine rules changed and they went with a more 'traditional' layout.
This link shows what it looked like. The images are fully computer modeled and rendered - pretty amazing!
http://www.automotto.org/entry/honda-ra270-f1-prototype-digitized/
The next year the engine rules changed and they went with a more 'traditional' layout.
John Allen
True Classic
You may be right, I *thought* all of the transverse engines were air cooled. The RA271 and RA272 were the transverse cars and looked 'a little more normal' but still different from ALL of the other cars on the grid.
In '66 the cars were radically different when they went to the 3.0 liter rules, the engines were liquid cooled that year . The engine looked a lot more 'normal' but the car was pretty heavy. These would be the RA273 and RA300 cars. The 'bundle of snake' exhaust between the cylinder heads was pretty impressive!
In '66 the cars were radically different when they went to the 3.0 liter rules, the engines were liquid cooled that year . The engine looked a lot more 'normal' but the car was pretty heavy. These would be the RA273 and RA300 cars. The 'bundle of snake' exhaust between the cylinder heads was pretty impressive!