Yes, once again, starter...

slaponte

slaponte

The Iron Monkey
Hello everybody! Long time, ah? Yeah, still hanging around, still have the X, with starting issues. So here is where I am at.

- New battery, new posts, cleaned ground on the front and rear.
- tested positive lead to starter to 12.4V
- when ignition key is turned, small spade lead reads 11.7 or so
- I have a spare ignition switch, so I hooked it up and tried, same behaviors, so I am back to my orig.
No sound, no cranking. All lights ok when the key is turned. Lights work, etc.

Soo, I have decided to pull the starter. So I have a few questions (and yes, I am reading all the threads I can find, but just in case)

(BTW, 82 1.5L FI, 5spd)

- 3 bolts hold the starter to the housing, right? (13mm). Do you get those from bellow? The image I saw on the service manual seems to indicate bolts that come in from the driver side of the bell housing.

- Is this a hard starter to find? I mean, once I get it out, am I going to have another problem on my hands? I used to know a shop that rebuild them but I don't know if they are still in business.

The starter actually looks very clean (in the car, not out yet), like not an original. humm.

Q: lets assume is the solenoid for a moment. Shouldn't the starter spin if I cross the two larger posts? When I turn the key, I don't hear the starter or solenoid do anything, all I hear is the buzz from the FI.

Any other info/hints appreciated. Haynes is of no help ("remove three bolts to take out, replace is the reverse of removal". :confused: Thanks a lot for that). If there is a best off about it pass me a link. Thanks.
 
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Hi Sergio:

I am guessing that you need to remove the starter and take it to your FLAPS (friendly local auto parts store) and have it tested. Around here, Autozone and NAPA both will test them free.

If it is bad, It is probably a Bosch starter that most alternator / starter repair shops can rebuild with no problem, and not much money.

Take care,
Kevin
 
... starter motor r&r

I just more or less pulled the cranky starter motor (sorry but it is bad joke Friday) not so long ago. Same conditions as you have explained - turn the key and nothing happens; all else appears to be good.

Before you pull the started motor, have a peek\check at the ground strap between the engine and the body; located at the rear. Clean and bright and tight?

Disconnect the battery.

Jack up the car, drivers side and the rear jack point. There still isn't a great deal of wriggle room underneath, so be slow and patient. Got a hoist?

Yes, 3 bolts; left is loosey. I think 13mm is right, don't recall for sure. Two of the bolts are reasonably accessible from inside the engine bay; may have to remove the FI air intake out of the way ... you can figure that out I'm sure to get some access.

Once the bolts have been removed, get under (again), wriggle the starter motor a bit and it will drop down, probably suddenly; keep a hold of it somewhat though as there is one more task to fulfill - disconnecting the electrical wires from the starter motor.

I have a 1981 FI; I have three wires. The 2 main cables from the battery and ignition system and a smaller gauge wire. The small one is on a spade terminal; be careful pulling that off. The bigger cables are secured with a nut (1/2 inch spanner I think) and a few washers. Ummm, keep track of where the washers go.

Now you have the starter motor in your hands; you can bench test it if you like. It will likely be worn bushings instead of the solenoid.

I dropped the defunct starter motor at a nearby electrical specialist, who offered an exchange recore or a rebuild of the original. I had the original rebuilt ... 3 days $105. Using the original I would be sure that all would fall back into place. If it's a recore, check the bolt hole locations are correct and that there is a threaded mast for the two main electricla cables and a spade connection. You remember this don't you?

While waiting the return of the starter motor, I crawled underneath the X and cleaned some of the road grim\gunk off and had a look around. Took the time to check the cable connections for the starter motor; clean and trim\recrimp or better yet solder. Some improvement in electrical current may result.

Installation is a reverse of the removal (just as Haynes suggest!); wriggling under the car one more time; I would suggest that you attach the 2 main electrical cables first, don't forget the washers; don't tighten that nut all the way just yet. Wriggle the starter motor in to place and get the three bolts located and somewhat in a few turns.

If you have trouble getting the bolts\holes to align, well you will have to pull the electrical cables off as these might 'foul' up the wriggling. get the bolts in; then get back under again to connect the 2 main cables and the skinny guage cable with the spade terminal.

Tighten the 3 bolts. Check the ground under the car, any nuts or bolts left? Re attach the FI hose or whatever else was moved around to get access to those starter motor bolts. Reconnect the battery and ... turn the key to Acc, but don't start just yet. No fizzy noises? :)

Go ahead. Turn the key. There should be good noises.

A reminder that there is not a lot of working room; unless you have the luxury of a hoist ... floor jacks will get it done, just squeezy. And wriggling the starter motor in is a pain in the deltoids.

I think that covers it ... others might add their knowledge.
 
When my starter stopped starting I took it apart, cleaned the solenoid triggers, cleaned up the brushes, relubed the shaft :)whistle:) and put it all back together.

Been going strong w/out an issue for 3 months now. Hopefully it continues.
 
The good news : its out. :)

The plan was to start early this AM. But the GF stayed over and, you know, I had other priorities. :whistle: But when I got to it, it wasn't that bad.

- Disconnected the wires. Spade one I have been working on since this whole deal started. The upper one had a thick green wire and a thinner (not thin, but thinner than the green) black wire on it. 13mm nut.

- It turns out my starter (Marelli) has TWO bolts (13mm) on. I got the lower and lower front ones from bellow. When I went looking for the top one, all I saw was a flat metal (more like a dowel), no bolt. So I wiggled the starter and it dropped out. At this point I realized the black wire was still on the post (it took a little flat head screwdriver to wiggle it out) and the starter came out.

I got done at 4:31PM, and the one shop I would trust to rebuild for me closed at 4:30. ugh. So it will be monday I guess. Yeah, I plan to have it rebuilt if I can, they did an alt for me before and they had it ready next afternoon, and it was better price than the rebuilt unit. :)

It was surprisingly easy. As stated, I got the car way up on the rear for easy work and removed the left rear tire for better view and just light to get in. I thought I might have to reach the bolts from there, but no. It just helps to look. Yeah, the collant hoses do get in the way but they have enough give to push them over.

I expected much worse, so I am kind of happy it wasn't that bad. :)

Thanks so much for all the tips and the pics, they DO help a bunch.
 
Update : dead starter.

The good news : now I know what is wrong. :wall:

The bad news, dead starter. The best local shop offered to rebuild mine for $88, so I am going to go with that. It will be ready tomorrow AM. But, I am off to Daytona (bike week) so it will be running (I hope) early next week.

And then we will see what the next repair is. :nana:
 
Well... OK Sergio...

If you put it back in and ya still get nothing...

Do as WOMBAT first said... and REMOVE THE GROUND STRAP... clean and re-install. I hope ya didn't waste 88 bucks.

(Never ask a barber if he thinks ya need a haircut...)

ALSO... bench test it in the front trunk with a set of jumper cables and make sure it pulls in the solenoid AND the motor spins. This takes three hands or two and one foot...
 
I didn't mention it but I had removed/cleaned/reattached the ground strap before, and re-did it again just to make sure, no dice.

The bench test at the auto parts was that : hook up ground, pos and spade, test. We ran the test 3 times, nothing at all. The solenoid did move some one time, didn't move later and the motor itself never turned.

Hopefully I might get it running tomorrow. :)
 
And it is running! :excited:

Picked up rebuilt starter, installed. Cranked and started right up. And then it died right off as the ignition has a bad contact and if you wiggle the key the power goes out. Soo.. I extracted the guts from it and replaced with the guts of another ignition I had (with new keys). Started right up. I adjusted the idle and now it doesn't die anymore.

I took the time to button up a lot of loose trim from inside, a badge for the trunk lid, the door spring (so it doesn't open too far) and a few other tidbits I have purchased over time.

Can't take it out for a spin since the tags expired 4/08. So when I get back from Daytona is insurance, tags and off for a spin. :)

Pending projects :

- install fuel tank
- front spoiler and grill (got new ones from Henk)
- Packup the fuse box and wiring mess into its location
- speakers and radio r&r, also clock.

Ah, the joys of older cars. There is always something to be done. :)
 
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