Yes! Yet Another Clutch Question

[Red Bull 78]

:rolleyes2::confuse2: The Good news! I got the Rear Calipers done tonite.
Solid Pedal after Bleeding but think the fronts are also froze up. That's on tomorrows "hobby" plate.:thumbsup:

Now here's the question. I revisited the Clutch Bleeding and Pedal issues again today. Once Bled, I put a Tape measure beside the Slave and the push rod moved 1.25 to 1.5 Inches, like it's suppose too.
The problem: It doesn't even start moving until the pedal is over 1/2 way down, past the point of no return, with the OEM Spring installed. Very little resistance, so the pedal stays on the floor. I can't feel when the Master push rod makes contact with the piston, even when holding the push rod with my fingers and pushing the pedal with the other hand.
The Pedal Return Stop/Adjustment is all the way UP, so the pedal rest even with my Brake pedal. At this setting, 1/2 the pedal travel, way over 6.75 inches, is wasted before anything really happens.
I COULD adjust the pedal to hang that low and be all business, but I'd end up operating the Clutch with my Left Big Toe, to prevent a Toe Jam under the brake pedal, in that tight space near the floor.
I drove the 74 & 76 for 5 years and I don't remember any of this ever being an issue, unless i was wearing my "Blue Suede Cowboy Boots". .
Then, I pushed it one more time and it goes to the floor and the Slave never moves.:wall:

Question: How can I push the Master Piston back where it belongs?
I've back-flushed the system, during bleeding, so if there is still air in there, I don't know where it's hiding.
Could I try Back-Flushing it with the Cap Tight on the Reservoir, so the only place the fluid could go is into the Master to push the piston back?

Option #1 Install longer Push Rod???
Option #2 Piston stuck mid way / Master defective. R&R AGAIN!:cry:

 

[jvandyke]

Sounds like a bad master to me. Weird you get good throw out of the slave though if the master is acting so late in the game. There should be so much back pressure from the pressure plate and hydraulics that the pedal comes right back up, if not, I'd say that master is leaking internally. I did make a longer slave push rod but don't go by me, I'm 90% convinced I have a bent clutch fork so all my geometry is off. My pedal is actually a bit too high (probably why the spring bugged me so much). I set it up so at rest the slave rod is just barely off the lever, but I pushed the lever so it was just barely off the pressure plate too, before I set it, there was a lot of free play in the lever before it ever hit the pressure plate, not anymore. Going after the master isn't so bad if you drop the box a bit, moving the steering column out of the way and such.

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

Many tales of woe on this site regarding aftermarket hydraulics in general.

Bernice (aka "Rupunzell") just did a post last week with an autopsy of a brake master showing the inferior quality of the available replacements. Have to assume that aftermarket clutch hydraulics are just as inferior.

It's looking more and more like repairing genuine OEM is far superior to buying new aftermarket.

 

[Red Bull 78]

It was so much fun and I get to do it all again

:wall:Still got the Steering column out for the Brake & Clutch masters R&R.
I'm almost glad you guys agree it's the Master cyl. I've posted this elsewhere, but this car got a New CLUTCH SET, Master & Slave, in April of 09 just 900 miles before I bought it with a BAD Brake Master Cyl AND the Clutch Pedal staying on the floor. I had to Stop the engine to get it into Reverse to back it into the garage.
I was worried that the lack of back pressure from the "New" Clutch was due to the Previous Assailant's attempts to hide his shoddy handy work.


This is the Clutch Slave Push rod I found in it. That gunk stuck to it is some kind of "Weld On" product, where he "glued" it back together INSIDE the Adjustment Nut. I was worried that the clutch may be the issue because it couldn't be properly adjusted. If it was slipping even a little bit, the excessive heat generated, could bake the Temper out of the Steel Springs and create the Weak Clutch condition.
Lesser of two Evils, if it is the Master. Just don't want to have to loosen too many lines anymore that I have too. I've already had to use TWO of the Flare Gaskets you told me about and I haven't even got the Front Caliper ordered Yet. Got them off today. Couldn't budge either piston with a giant C-clamp. I bought a new set of Flare Wrenches, just for this job and It doesn't have an 8 mm in it. Tried 4 places, even Craftsman at the local Sears and can't find one. So far, only buggered up the LR hardline to Hose connection. Got the New Hose & Caliper on line and it doesn't leak.
Unless anybody's got a better idea, I think I'll get the NEW one from Bayless and hope the Michelli Brake Master holds up well.

All this moves my target "Back On the Road Again" date from Memorial Day to July 4th.:cry::sad:

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

One trick Papa Tony often mentions for use with flare nut wrenches......if you have the room, after you place the flare nut wrench on the flare nut, next use a pair of vice grips and and clamp them tightly around the flare nut wench to support the jaws of the flare nut wrench to keep them from opening under pressure and ruining the flare nut.

The theory behind that trick is that unless one buys the REALLY expensive ones from the mechanic's brands (Snap On, Mac), most examples of lesser or bargain brand flare nut wrenches are pretty lame and will bend under pressure and round off the flare nuts. It also gives you a second "handle" from which you can exert loosening torque, which should also help keep the flare nut wrench square to the nut and help prevent rounding off.

 

[Red Bull 78]

This Ain't My First Rodeo

I fly Craftsman all the way. But I bought a mini Vise-Grip and a new set of Flare Wrenches, just for this purpose, before I even started this project. It just didn't come with an 8 mm wrench.
Most of the Flare Nuts were 10 mm, so I didn't need it until i got to the 8 mm?? LR line fitting, which was already too buggered up for any standard 8 mm wrench to grab.
With the distribution block, easily accessible on the firewall, this was a safe gamble, should I have to replace the whole line because the fitting didn't seal.
I gambled on it sealing up on the new Hose and won, only after using one of the Flare Gaskets, you turned me on to. :headbang:

To paraphrase Albert Einstein, "It's impossible for anyone to know all the answers. Wisdom is knowing where to find the answer you need.":mallet: :dunce:

What worries me about the Clutch itself is, I ran the Adjustment Nut way up the adjustment rod to hold the Slave in place while bleeding. When I backed it off to properly adjust it, I had to physically pull the Yolk back.
I just don't want to accept that a Brand New Clutch could be trashed in 900 miles and nobody even noticed.

In 1964, I was in the Test Class to see if 8th graders could handle Algebra. I made it through Geometry but must have missed a whole week when the discussed "Fluid Dynamics", aka hydraulic systems.
I can crunch numbers with the best of them, but when the parts don't work, all calculations are null & void.