thedevilmakesthree
Daily Driver
x19 or 914? stock. Not power or any of that. I've talked to alot of people who think the porsche does. i haven't driven a 914 so i can't compare.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
which handles better?
- Thread starter thedevilmakesthree
- Start date
myexonenine
True Classic
I haven't even seen a 914 in the flesh... it could all depend on the track/road as well.
Jim W
Luckless Pedestrian
Waaaay back when I bought my first X, I was also looking at 914s (used). The X felt nimbler... much more of a point and squirt type of car. 914s felt bigger, heavier, more substantial... typically German of the period... also the better car for highway cruising.
All just impressions from test drives. how they would compare at a track or AutoX I have no idea.
I was looking at used cars for both and the Porsches were always much more expensive. Bought the X.
..and over the years I've had a couple other opportunities to drive a 914... even a 914-6. My impressions were the same.
All just impressions from test drives. how they would compare at a track or AutoX I have no idea.
I was looking at used cars for both and the Porsches were always much more expensive. Bought the X.
..and over the years I've had a couple other opportunities to drive a 914... even a 914-6. My impressions were the same.
toddr124
Hagerstown, MD
I have owned both and driven both in different autox
I owned the 914 before I bought my X1/9. The 914 is bigger and wider than the X1/9. This made the 914 great at the twisties, even a little better than the X1/9.
My 914 was mostly stock and my X1/9 is mostly stock. My 87 X1/9 is more comfortable than the 74 914 and a lot more more fun to drive as a daily driver, but the 914 had more power and a little better handling.
If the 914 was fixable at a reasonable price for parts(like the X1/9) I would still have the 914.
I owned the 914 before I bought my X1/9. The 914 is bigger and wider than the X1/9. This made the 914 great at the twisties, even a little better than the X1/9.
My 914 was mostly stock and my X1/9 is mostly stock. My 87 X1/9 is more comfortable than the 74 914 and a lot more more fun to drive as a daily driver, but the 914 had more power and a little better handling.
If the 914 was fixable at a reasonable price for parts(like the X1/9) I would still have the 914.
bikesandcars
True Classic
I drove my cousin's 300 hp 914 V-8 last night. It has 911 front end, suspension, brakes, and wheels. I can confirm that it is slightly faster than my x1-9... :laugh:... but the X19 feels better (mainly because he didn't do much for ergo's).
914's have awkward backward pedals, a shifter that feels like rowing a boat, and strange open-floor pan. I think the x19 holds you in better. Conversely, the 914 has more room for taller folks.
handling wise they feel very similar to me, but I've only tracked an x19 and haven't had a chance to take the 914-8 on the track yet
I'd take the x19 from an ergonomic standpoint. The porsche has so much more available from an enthusiast standpoint that most 914's are made to handle better, but all even I'd say they are about the same. 914's flex more though (weaker chassis).
914's have awkward backward pedals, a shifter that feels like rowing a boat, and strange open-floor pan. I think the x19 holds you in better. Conversely, the 914 has more room for taller folks.
handling wise they feel very similar to me, but I've only tracked an x19 and haven't had a chance to take the 914-8 on the track yet
I'd take the x19 from an ergonomic standpoint. The porsche has so much more available from an enthusiast standpoint that most 914's are made to handle better, but all even I'd say they are about the same. 914's flex more though (weaker chassis).
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
This is NOT a simple question as one must define "handling".
Then there are numerious factors that effect "handling", everything from tires, tire pressure, wheels, suspension settings, spring rates, damper rates, and much much more..
It also depends on what a specific chassis is set-up for. A chassis set up for track duty can be on the other extreme of a chassis set up for off road rally or a daily road car.
Then we have "feel" what does the car feel like to the driver and what preferences do the specific driver have?
What I will say, the basis for any proper performance in any chassis is chassis stiffness and in this basic regard, the X is better than the 914. In theory, the X has a better rear suspension than the 914 (semi trailing arms that flex under high cornering loads and less than ideal camber curves). Even so, this question is not simple by any means.
Keep in mind many Porsche-philes are very loyal to the brand and their opinions can be biased based on blind loyalty. To be subjective, one must understand how both chassis actually work and what they are intended to do.
Bernice
Then there are numerious factors that effect "handling", everything from tires, tire pressure, wheels, suspension settings, spring rates, damper rates, and much much more..
It also depends on what a specific chassis is set-up for. A chassis set up for track duty can be on the other extreme of a chassis set up for off road rally or a daily road car.
Then we have "feel" what does the car feel like to the driver and what preferences do the specific driver have?
What I will say, the basis for any proper performance in any chassis is chassis stiffness and in this basic regard, the X is better than the 914. In theory, the X has a better rear suspension than the 914 (semi trailing arms that flex under high cornering loads and less than ideal camber curves). Even so, this question is not simple by any means.
Keep in mind many Porsche-philes are very loyal to the brand and their opinions can be biased based on blind loyalty. To be subjective, one must understand how both chassis actually work and what they are intended to do.
Bernice
thedevilmakesthree
Daily Driver
yes, the people who have argued in the 914's sake i have talked to own numerous porsches and are real porsche nuts. The x/19 has a shorter wheel base right?
don't the 914s doors always stay shut because or rust or somthing?
don't the 914s doors always stay shut because or rust or somthing?
Eastep
True Classic
The comparison between the 2 have been made several times in several magazines. The advantages and disadvantages between the two are so narrow that basically where one car may be slightly better in one area and weaker in an other, then the other car picks up the slack and vise verse. A few quick example's/comparisons are: beginning with brakes. While the X1/9 has decent enough brakes, the 914's are better. In contrast, though, the Porsche's suspension isn't as balanced/well tuned well as the X1/9's , but then again the 914 is lighter and has more power then the X1/9, but then yet again the X1/9 has better feel at the limit and is more agile, and so on and so fore, back and forth, back and forth. In summery both cars are very capable in factory trim and both are extremely potent in full race trim (which is why both have been raced regularly for several decades now) so ultimately whether which car is better or which car should be purchased over the other really boils down to brand loyalty, design preference, what your looking for
I was not one of the invaders a couple of years ago, but registered to add a few comments.
I have owned both the X1/9 and Porsche 914. My preference is the 914. I had great fun in the X1/9s and think they are a damn good car with the exception of the water tubes.
My current 914 is a six conversion with a 2.7L. Wheeeeeee Next will be a 3.0L. Yes, they are not cheap.
Back to your normal programming.
I have owned both the X1/9 and Porsche 914. My preference is the 914. I had great fun in the X1/9s and think they are a damn good car with the exception of the water tubes.
My current 914 is a six conversion with a 2.7L. Wheeeeeee Next will be a 3.0L. Yes, they are not cheap.
Back to your normal programming.
ryan
True Classic
I believe he was asking about the 914 and X1/9 in purely stock trim though.
We need to call up Top Gear and get the Stig setup with a stock X and 914 4-banger. :laugh:
KaptKaos
Low Mileage
The 914 and X1/9 overlapped in MY '74-'76. Finding two bone-stock examples from that era to compare will be nearly impossible. Also, their handling characteristics will be subtly different than they were in the 70s because of the differences in tires.
I don't think there is a correct answer, but it makes for great bench racing!
Oh yeah. Don't listen to Slits. He's been driving at high elevation the last few days and it makes him loopy.
I don't think there is a correct answer, but it makes for great bench racing!
Oh yeah. Don't listen to Slits. He's been driving at high elevation the last few days and it makes him loopy.
spiggs
True Classic
Well if you look at SCCA autox classing the 914 is in CS while the X1/9 is in ES. So at the lowest level of prep the 914 should be faster around a tight course. Interestingly they are both in DSP which would tell me that since the 914 still would have a torque advantage because of the limited engine mods that the chassis and suspension of the X1/9 makes up the disadvantage when tire and suspension mods are equally applied.
LarryC
Curator of #10105275
abarth2litre
1800CC SOHC X1/9
the Shell answer Women
As usual when "she" gives an answer ..
I have more questions.:confuse2:
As usual when "she" gives an answer ..
I have more questions.:confuse2:
thedevilmakesthree
Daily Driver
sorry i don't know autox terms. could you explain what you were talking about a little more?
i personaly think the x looks better. 914s are cool looking just very odd.
i personaly think the x looks better. 914s are cool looking just very odd.
x1/9 914
they are 2 different cars the 914 will handle better at higher speeds but the x1/9 will handle better at lower speeds so for street driving in a "race" the x1/9 would win thats assuming that the power was equal but it would start to change around 70 mph because of the larger wheelbase. also the 914 has a horizontally apposed engine in it witch lowers the center of gravity. both cars have a low polar moment of inertia but the Porsche i believe is closer to a 50/50 weight distribution the than the x1/9 but braking is improved if it's let say 59% rear 41% front distribution for the x1/9 and 51/49 for the 914 so what happens is the weight in the x1/9 in the back would shift toward the front of the car while braking and the 914 would have that affect reduced. so in theory assuming equality again the x1/9 is able to take your forward movement and turn that energy into heat more efficiently than the 914. efficiency usually leads to better performance but the 914 will tend to slide less in a turn but the x1/9 has more traction. there is allot more but this should answer the question a little.
they are 2 different cars the 914 will handle better at higher speeds but the x1/9 will handle better at lower speeds so for street driving in a "race" the x1/9 would win thats assuming that the power was equal but it would start to change around 70 mph because of the larger wheelbase. also the 914 has a horizontally apposed engine in it witch lowers the center of gravity. both cars have a low polar moment of inertia but the Porsche i believe is closer to a 50/50 weight distribution the than the x1/9 but braking is improved if it's let say 59% rear 41% front distribution for the x1/9 and 51/49 for the 914 so what happens is the weight in the x1/9 in the back would shift toward the front of the car while braking and the 914 would have that affect reduced. so in theory assuming equality again the x1/9 is able to take your forward movement and turn that energy into heat more efficiently than the 914. efficiency usually leads to better performance but the 914 will tend to slide less in a turn but the x1/9 has more traction. there is allot more but this should answer the question a little.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Here is a "Four Sports Car Comparison" from Road & Track back in the day.
Note the 914 tested zero to 60Mph at a tire burning 13.9 seconds and the road test staff used the words, "Futuristic but Un-resolved."
To this day, the 914 is mostly shunned by Porsche-philes and considered more VW than Porsche. In a way similar to the Ferrari Dino being, "Not a Real Ferrari." until recently.
What made the difference for the 914 being more accepted by car folks than the 1/9 is the fact Porsche did race the car with some success and evolved it to some degree. Initially increasing the engine displacement from 1.7L to 2.0L, then the 914-6 and finally the 916.. plus the name Porsche has a halo effect on this car.
The X had none of this, it suffered lack of proper development from day one and FIAT was determined to not allow the x1/9 to be a fully developed race car. Fact is, the x1/9 was never really a FIAT design, it was something that Mr. Bertone cooked up and convinced Agnelli to produce it initially and use FIAT mechanicals..
Cars develop a reputation of desirability factor based on it's racing history, how many times did "it win", owner experience, how the media presents the car to the public and brand reputation.
It's worth noting that when Bertone went direct to the US market, they tried to hide every FIAT badge to avoid being connected to the FIAT name which was perceived as bad in the US car market.
If one were to judge the x1/9 purely on it's stock offering, yes it is a rather low performance offering that has good chassis dynamics and under powered.. But, the vast majority would never know what this design is capable of due to how un-developed it is as delivered and no real factory supported race efforts. In the 914's case, there are direct go-fast options for this car including V8 Detroit power, pride of owing a "Porsche" and good aftermarket support and owners who do not whine about spending $ on their Porsche. The x1/9 comes with none of these.. relegating it to being a under appreciated, un-finished gem for some to discover.
For those who have not seen this video.. This is basically an x1/9 chassis with Uno turbo power racing with Porsche's current GT-3 cup racer and a mid-engine Renault Megan..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1t5O2xmcI"]YouTube - Special Saloon Car Challenge- Jyllandsringen 23 August 2009. Heat 2. pt.1[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4-Wvtz1gWY&feature=related"]YouTube - Special Saloon Car Challenge- Jyllandsringen 23 August 2009. Heat 2. pt.2[/ame]
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/4612/
Imagine if FIAT allowed Bertone to produce the twin cam Stradle and Abarth to rally it and do a proper race program using the x1/9 chassis.. beyond what Dallara did with this chassis.
If looking at value for the money spent were a prime consideration, the x remains one of the very best values in a small mid-engine sports car.
As for rust, 914 rust as bad or worst than the x1/9, but the most serious rust problems are hidden. There are reinforcement structures that run along the side of the body and they tend to rust badly in darkness. The clue to this problem, the doors sag and won't close properly on a 914. Just another example of how many cars from that era are all prone to rust.
Bernice
Note the 914 tested zero to 60Mph at a tire burning 13.9 seconds and the road test staff used the words, "Futuristic but Un-resolved."
To this day, the 914 is mostly shunned by Porsche-philes and considered more VW than Porsche. In a way similar to the Ferrari Dino being, "Not a Real Ferrari." until recently.
What made the difference for the 914 being more accepted by car folks than the 1/9 is the fact Porsche did race the car with some success and evolved it to some degree. Initially increasing the engine displacement from 1.7L to 2.0L, then the 914-6 and finally the 916.. plus the name Porsche has a halo effect on this car.
The X had none of this, it suffered lack of proper development from day one and FIAT was determined to not allow the x1/9 to be a fully developed race car. Fact is, the x1/9 was never really a FIAT design, it was something that Mr. Bertone cooked up and convinced Agnelli to produce it initially and use FIAT mechanicals..
Cars develop a reputation of desirability factor based on it's racing history, how many times did "it win", owner experience, how the media presents the car to the public and brand reputation.
It's worth noting that when Bertone went direct to the US market, they tried to hide every FIAT badge to avoid being connected to the FIAT name which was perceived as bad in the US car market.
If one were to judge the x1/9 purely on it's stock offering, yes it is a rather low performance offering that has good chassis dynamics and under powered.. But, the vast majority would never know what this design is capable of due to how un-developed it is as delivered and no real factory supported race efforts. In the 914's case, there are direct go-fast options for this car including V8 Detroit power, pride of owing a "Porsche" and good aftermarket support and owners who do not whine about spending $ on their Porsche. The x1/9 comes with none of these.. relegating it to being a under appreciated, un-finished gem for some to discover.
For those who have not seen this video.. This is basically an x1/9 chassis with Uno turbo power racing with Porsche's current GT-3 cup racer and a mid-engine Renault Megan..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1t5O2xmcI"]YouTube - Special Saloon Car Challenge- Jyllandsringen 23 August 2009. Heat 2. pt.1[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4-Wvtz1gWY&feature=related"]YouTube - Special Saloon Car Challenge- Jyllandsringen 23 August 2009. Heat 2. pt.2[/ame]
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/4612/
Imagine if FIAT allowed Bertone to produce the twin cam Stradle and Abarth to rally it and do a proper race program using the x1/9 chassis.. beyond what Dallara did with this chassis.
If looking at value for the money spent were a prime consideration, the x remains one of the very best values in a small mid-engine sports car.
As for rust, 914 rust as bad or worst than the x1/9, but the most serious rust problems are hidden. There are reinforcement structures that run along the side of the body and they tend to rust badly in darkness. The clue to this problem, the doors sag and won't close properly on a 914. Just another example of how many cars from that era are all prone to rust.
Bernice
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Mark Plaia
True Classic
I have that article!...
It is one of the factors that convinced me to buy a 1972 FIAT Spider back in 1978.
Ciao,
It is one of the factors that convinced me to buy a 1972 FIAT Spider back in 1978.
Ciao,