124 Spider question

Felipe

Felipe

Low mileage
looking at buying a nice 82 124 spider for a fair price. Needs total rear brakes (fronts completely done), timing belt change (owner doesn't know when it was done) and has had front control arm bushings replaced.

Question is this - the car pulls hard to the right. Might just be really out of alignment ( can't tell from tire wear because the car hasn't been driven much). Any other thoughts on what the problem could be???
 
It's OK to ask here because we love all Fiats:love: but because we especially love the X1/9 you won't get as much good advice about a 124 here... You might want to try the Fiat forum at www.mirafiori.com
 
fiatspider.com is the best place to ask about a spider.



Felipe said:
looking at buying a nice 82 124 spider for a fair price. Needs total rear brakes (fronts completely done), timing belt change (owner doesn't know when it was done) and has had front control arm bushings replaced.

Question is this - the car pulls hard to the right. Might just be really out of alignment ( can't tell from tire wear because the car hasn't been driven much). Any other thoughts on what the problem could be???
Click to expand...
 
Check Brake Hoses

If they get partially blocked, they'll hold pressure on one caliper and exert diferent pressures on each caliper, causing it to pull. Sticking caliper pistons can cause the same thing, but the hoses are easier to check.
Dave
 
Second the Mirafiori.com recommendation...

But I can say there a few reasons the car would pull to the side.

Tire pressure is the first thing to check. Second is check for sticking caliper.

Alignment is another possible problem, the a-arms are aligned with shims and it takes some patience and well, competence to do it right. Bad shock towers are another, they can rust or otherwise collapse and cause extreme camber problems. Bad control arms (bent, bushings), front crossmember (cracks) are other possibilities.

Good luck!
 
WHOA HOLD UP!!!

Frame disease. Look inside the engine bay and look for a dent where the top of the shock tower is. If it is protruded you have frame disease and it will require cubic dollars to fix. In fact, you can't really fix it. Beware of cars that have this. I've always avoided it in the 4 or 5 spiders I've had. Check for it.
 
I'm sorry..

My mechanic always flipped out about that when I was buying a spider. Sorry....I guess I learned it from him and I didn't read your post Greg. You had it covered without me. I'm beside myself today.

...I'm going to see Sarah Bareilles next month......hopefully get to meet her. She's so wonderful and the freshest music I've heard in years. Being a composer in MS I'm set to extend the olive branch of the musical aristocracy of Mississippi to her and hopefully give her a personal tour of the Mississippi Delta. That would be incredible!
 
trailing arms

The rear axle is located by 4 trailing arms. If any of the bushings wear out, it will cause the car to pull to one side while accelariting and back to the other side when you get off the gas. This is because worn control arm bushings allow the rear axle to move fowarad or backward,causing the rear tires to change direction slightly left or right of center. You have to replace the whole arm,as the bushings themselves are not replacable. An easy job though.
 
halojm said:
If they get partially blocked, they'll hold pressure on one caliper and exert diferent pressures on each caliper, causing it to pull. Sticking caliper pistons can cause the same thing, but the hoses are easier to check.
Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

Would this occur even when the breaks are not being applied???

The tire pressure is fine, the car is accident / rust free and had a front end aligment by a reliable mechanic when the front bushings were done.

The rear breaks are totoally non existent with no squeal, grinding or any sound at all when brakes are applied.

Thanks in advance...btw thanks again for the receptacles. They look fantastic!!! I owe you a beer or three!!!
 
Pulling without brakes applied

Both partially blocked brake hoses and sticking calipers will cause it to pull, even without brakes applied. What happens is the side with the partially blocked brake hose or sticking caliper maintains some pressure on the brake pads, causing it to pull to that side. Then, when you hit the brakes, the opposite side, shich is functioning correctly, will sometimes make it pull to that side. Let me know what you find out. I'm glad the seat belt parts worked. I just threw all the rest of the seat belt parts I had in that color in with the package in case you need them in the future.
Dave
 
Felipe, you didn't say (at least in this post - I have NINE pages of back-log to catch up on!) if you got the car or not. Two things that haven't been mentioned yet...
1. The steering box. On my '72 (that I had way back when) I got it with a "pulling to the right" problem, but the price was so low I would have been stupid to NOT get the car. I lived with it for awhile then took it in to a great Fiat mechanic that used to work not far (VERY relative term) from where I lived at the time for other work (valves) and asked about what the pulling issue might be. He took it out for a drive after the valve work, told me what - in his opinion - it was, and for a few hundred (less than $300) it was back on the road and better than ever. And that included the valve work!
2. The cross-member mounts. On both my old '72 and my current '76 the cross-member under the motor is (was) not in the best of shape. It turned into a catastrophic failure on my '72, and now that I know what I'm looking at, will get fixed on my '76 in short order - again a relative term. It's not so much the cross-member itself but where it mounts to the frame. That area has a tendancy to rust out and then tear the mounting points from out of the frame. A good welder can fix it right up for you as long as the frame itself isn't compromised too badly. But even that can be fixed...
Just a few things to think about, and if the price is right I would jump on a nice Spider in a heartbeat! Makes a great addition to the stable alongside an X...
 
I had a buddy in the Navy who told me he had a front strut just collapse out of a spider on a snowy day in Boston while he was in college. I thought it was a tall tale at the time.

Then I was at a little autocross down here in Houston one day and saw and green spider fold up a front tire braking into a turn... the BMW guy I was talking to said "Wow that doesn't look good!" and sure enough, the gals strut had ripped right out at the top of the tower! Brian wasn't lying after all!

Most of the guys in the local club drive Spiders and I've heard several talk about cracked or broken crossmembers. (although I only know of one who definitely had one broken)
I don't know if that causes dramatic pulling like a sticking caliper can.
 
I'm not sure about the pulling issue with a broken cross-member. On my '72 it caused the engine to lean over and rev REALLY high. I had to nurse it (clutch play, etc) the 25 or so miles home that night. I noticed it on my '76 and have yet to take it out on a drive. I bought the '76 for $300 and had only started to dig into it when I noticed the cross-member mounts. I was just thinking that it was something else to have a look at. From a structural point of view, it's possible (although not terribly likely) that a cross-member mount that is starting to fail can cause the frame to start to "tuck in" and create a situation where the steering might pull to one side or the other - as well as create camber and tracking issues to boot...
On the other hand, I've heard stories about X struts shooting up out of the towers. Never seen it first-hand or heard about on here but when I start to see rust around the strut mounts.... :devil:
 
the unibody can crack where the crossmember mounts, but the lower control arm attachment points can fail on the crossmember too. Time for a complete front end inspection. Be aware of potential lower ball joint failure also. There were some really poor quality ball joints and bushings on the market for awhile and they caused some catastrophic failures
 
I read about everything Spider related that I could find on Mirafiori.com. It was a great help to me while restoring my 1970 Fiat 124 Sport Spider.
My Spider was in very poor shape but I was a complete newbie so since 2004 I invested ridiculous amounts of money, time and materials to bring it to the condition it is in now. I made the decision to save it because it is an earlier car with the original engine and the smooth bonnet. It will never be perfect.
The calipers were bought as rebuilt units (pricey) because the pistons were frozen in there. Caliper rebuild rubber kits for the front and the back are available cheap if your calipers are rebuildable. My shock towers were welded with steel patches. My sills were non-existent and had to be fabricated. My car was a worst-case scenario, and you can see what the worst looks like at www.photobucket.com/janet70allmyfiats124.
You can rebuild anything, if you choose. Fiats from drier climates without road salt are highly reccommended!
Good luck, and do your FIAT Spider research.
 
pyrraxis said:
Felipe, you didn't say (at least in this post - I have NINE pages of back-log to catch up on!) if you got the car or not. Two things that haven't been mentioned yet...
1. The steering box. On my '72 (that I had way back when) I got it with a "pulling to the right" problem, but the price was so low I would have been stupid to NOT get the car. I lived with it for awhile then took it in to a great Fiat mechanic that used to work not far (VERY relative term) from where I lived at the time for other work (valves) and asked about what the pulling issue might be. He took it out for a drive after the valve work, told me what - in his opinion - it was, and for a few hundred (less than $300) it was back on the road and better than ever. And that included the valve work!
2. The cross-member mounts. On both my old '72 and my current '76 the cross-member under the motor is (was) not in the best of shape. It turned into a catastrophic failure on my '72, and now that I know what I'm looking at, will get fixed on my '76 in short order - again a relative term. It's not so much the cross-member itself but where it mounts to the frame. That area has a tendancy to rust out and then tear the mounting points from out of the frame. A good welder can fix it right up for you as long as the frame itself isn't compromised too badly. But even that can be fixed...
Just a few things to think about, and if the price is right I would jump on a nice Spider in a heartbeat! Makes a great addition to the stable alongside an X...
Click to expand...

This car looked beautiful. and I mean droll nice. Perfect body, undercarriage, interior, etc, but I passed and it was for more reasons that the pulling.

This car was on Ebay and happened to be close to my home so off I went. The owner only had the car for a year and paid several thousand more than he was willing to take for it. During his ownership he had completely replaced the front breaks (why not do the rears since they were literally non existent) and replaced the radiator. The car seemed a bit down on power and I saw coolant had sprayed under the hood (owner said it happened when he remover radiator cap).

The car also had non functional factory a/c that I could have fixed for about $300 ( a huge plus when living in S. Florida) and made the car even more tempting.

While I was debating the possible worst case scenarios the owner relisted the car on Ebay. In his description he stated that the car drove"straight as an arrow". This was a flat out lie. With this in mind I would suggest to others that they never purchase a car on Ebay unless they can see it and drive it. If you do buy a vehicle on Ebay that you can't personally drive bid a few grand less than you think its worth to cover unforeseen costs.

Maybe the cars new owner will get away with a quick fix but my gut tells me he/she will be buried in this car before he/she knows it.
 
if he really did "completely replace the front brakes" then that indicates suspension trouble. In my experience, most owners do incomplete brake repairs. What was the ebay sellers name? There was a guy on the east coast that was famous for misreprenting cars
 
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