1500 clutch adjustment

NEG

True Classic
Guys, what is the correct method to adjust the clutch slave rod on a 1500?

Having just been through the process on my 1300 after swapping the slave cylinder my 1500 has come out in sympathy and started leaking from the slave. The 1300 was easy to setup but the 1500 looks different and I can’t work out from the Haynes manual how it’s setup.

Cheers!
 
Having just been through the process on my 1300 after swapping the slave cylinder my 1500 has come out in sympathy and started leaking from the slave. The 1300 was easy to setup but the 1500 looks different and I can’t work out from the Haynes manual how it’s setup.
There's no fundamental 4-speed/5-speed 1300/1500 difference. The 1300/4-speed shipped with a spring at the slave that pulled the release bearing off the pressure plate when the pedal wasn't depressed, the 1500/5-speed shipped with a spring that held the release bearing gently against the pressure plate. This later approach made the clutch self-adjusting, at the cost of somewhat greater wear of the relaese bearing. The older style you had to periodically adjust the nuts on the slave rod to keep the clutch free play right, but saved some wear on the release bearing.

Easiest adjustemnt is to unhook the spring completely, push the release lever forward with your hand (this gets the bearing touching the pressure plate but putting no force on it because your hand is nowhere near strong enough), adjust the nut on the slave rod so that there is a microskosh of free play, and then reattach the spring either way or not at all. Then try driving the car and see if you like the clutch feel - if not, try one of the other possibilities with that spring.
 
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Thanks Eric, I’ll give it a go and may even look at setting the spring as per the 4speed box...
 
I hadn't thought of changing the slave's spring operation to something like that on the 1300. But the idea sounds good to me, I'd prefer to occasionally readjust it than have accelerated wear or a vague feel to it. However having never driven a 1300 I do not know how different that feels? Can anyone please give a description of the difference in clutch "feel" between the two spring set-ups?
 
I changed my 5 speed to the 4 speed setup per c obert's advice many years ago. Never looked back.
I adjust my clutch to engage at the bottom of the pedal's travel. In fact I lessened the pedal's travel by putting some neoprene washers behind the bump stop to cushion the landing of the pedal at full travel, a la 911. Love the feel...
 
What exactly is the mod? Anyone have pictures?
Not unless you have a copy of Chris’s book (or can find an online copy of the tech note) but there’s not much to it: unhook the spring from the bell housing, hook it onto the slave mount instead, so it pulls the release lever away from the bell housing instead of towards it.
 
Except the 1500 spring is not long enough to hook on to the slave cylinder ‘eye’. I found this via Google....

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/xweb/clutch-pedal-spring-to-use-or-not-to-use-t8988.html

I modified my slave cylinder set up as suggested in the article below from C. Obert & Co site ( formerly Fiat Plus) but I think you should keep the spring at the pedal.

I actually used the 1500 spring with stainless steel wire loop to adapt it to fit. Otherwise it would have been too short! Works just fine but looks a bit amateur.

There are other useful tech tips on Chris Oberts site http://www.fiatplus.com/index.htm

Tech Tip for November 1998
Springy X1/9 clutches

Taken from Volume 2 Number 3 Ciao!NEWS Winter 1996

The 1500cc X1/9s came with a bigger clutch than the 1300s and a new starter. In an attempt to modernize, a self-adjusting clutch design was used that actually keeps the throwout bearing touching the pressure plate fingers, which unfortunately causes premature wear on both the bearing and the plate. Fiat Plus has converted many of these back to pre-79 clutch systems.

The 5-speed X1/9 clutches tend to wear out quickly as the throwout bearing remains in contact with the pressure plate fingers. On 5-speeds, the clutch return spring goes from the clutch arm at the top of the transaxle to a small metal bracket fitted at one of the engine-to-transaxle bolts. On the 4-speed SOHC, the clutch return spring goes between the arm and the clutch slave cylinder. By converting your 5-speed to this 4-speed style spring mount, your clutch will release completely and should last longer.

Of course, the new design was to prevent the need for clutch adjustments. Thus the obvious downside of this conversion is you will occasionally need to do just that: adjust the clutch pedal freeplay. You can usually feel the freeplay with your foot on the pedal--it should be no more than one-half inch. Just remember to add the adjustment procedure below to your regular maintenance schedule, and/or when you detect the freeplay decrease or disappear.

The best way to prepare for this conversion is to get ahold of, or at least examine, the setup on the 4-speed before it's disassembled. You will need to use the 4-speed spring (the 5-speed spring is the wrong length) and you'll mimic the 4-speed's mounting setup on your 5-speed.

Here's how to convert the spring and adjust your new old-fashioned clutch:

Move the coolant overflow bottle out of the way if it blocks access to the clutch release mechanism.
Remove the small cotter pin, washer and lightweight or "weak" spring mounted on the clutch release shaft on your 5-speed.
Remove the 5-speed spring. Install the 4-speed spring, mounting it on the clutch slave cylinder as it was on the original 4-speed.
Adjust the clutch so that once the piston-to-plunger clearance is gone (this should be almost zero anyway), you have one-half inch freeplay at the top of the stroke.
Reinstall the cooling bottle if necessary, and bleed the cooling system as described in Ciao!NEWS Vol. 2 - No. 1.
Step on the pedal and you're out of here!
 
Also, I think the 4 speed spring will be too strong for the ‘eye’ on the slave cylinder so some sort of mounting bracket will be required to hook it on to.



Spring hooks on to the bracket on the right

 
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I found this via Google.
Thanks NEG, great info.

The described 1300 set-up is the same as most of the countless older vehicles I've owned. That is why it makes sense to me and will try it on my 1500. But I agree with the comments NEG brought up, to reposition the spring I'd prefer to make an appropriate mount for it to attach to at the slave end. That mount could be made at a length that compensates for the 1500 spring being sharter (in lieu of what Chris said in his write up, use a 1300 spring).
Anyone know the free length of the 1300 spring? Thanks.
 
What I was thinking of doing is replacing the top slave bolt with a longer one and connecting the 1500 spring to that to replicate the 4 speed setup. Not sure if the 1500 spring is strong enough though. Other thoughts where to modify a penny washer and drilled a hole for the spring to attach to and use it under the same top bolt or make a bracket/brace that connects both slave mounting bolts with a hole for the spring to attach to.

 
make a bracket/brace that connects both slave mounting bolts with a hole for the spring to attach to.
I was thinking something along that line, but just one bolt should do. Maybe a tab made from a piece of 1/8" flat stock with a larger hole at one end for the bolt to pass through and a smaller hole at the other end for the spring to attach to. That way the tab could be made any length to provide the desired spring tension. I don't think much tension is needed, just enough to hold the clutch arm back.
Something sort of like in this image:
6473-2.jpg

I'd still like to get some data about the 1300 spring set-up; such as the length of the spring at rest and mounted, or a picture of one on the car.
 
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Sorry if this is too far of topic, but it relates to the clutch feel and action. Today I pulled the pedal box out to rebuild everything and found the pivot for the clutch master cylinder's plunger is very worn. It allowed a lot of play between the pedal and the master, which resulted on a loose sloppy pedal (despite the main pedal pivot being in good shape).
027.JPG


I'm looking at various options to correct this.
 
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Springs



The upper spring is the standard spring as fitted to my ‘88 1500 the lower is a spring I bought from seller dg_rally on UK eBay. This spring is not the same as the monster fitted to my 4 speed 1300.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Fiat...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The description reads as “Clutch arm pre-tension spring as found on the 5 speed gearbox 1500 models. Will fit 1300 models. This attaches to the clutch slave cylinder lug and the clutch release arm.“

As you can see it’s about 80mm in overall length vs 60mm. Outside Diameter is 14mm and the wire 1.7mm.

I’ve not tried to fit it yet but it should fit to the lug on the slave...
 
Fitted





Setup as per the 1300. There’s a bit more weight to the pedal and pedal uptake was a little sharper at first as I wasn’t dialled into the feel, on the whole much as it was previously but with more weight similar to my 1300
 
As you can see it’s about 80mm in overall length vs 60mm.
Thanks, that illustrates the difference between the 1300 set up and the 1500 arrangement. Apparently that extra 20 mm in length is what was referred to when converting the 1500 to pull the other way (like a 1300). Appreciate the info. ;)
 
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