1987 fiat x1/9 k20z3 project

sub-zeroil

sub-zeroil

True Classic
i'm selling it for my buddy 87 very clean car , he dumped money into it , and just gave up
fully built k20z3 ready for boost lsd 6 speed engine sitting inside +coilovers , all the kit came from matt
+ dallara kit that is not on the car but will come with it , price is $15,500 extra set of wheels

car is in hollywood florida 33030

serious buyers serious buyers only can email me
r.motorsports6@gmail.com
 

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now that one sold for ok money , i think the number i posted this one is a steal for a built engine yes there is work to be done

but there is a lot of money already put into it .
 
sub-zeroil said:
now that one sold for ok money , i think the number i posted this one is a steal for a built engine yes there is work to be done

but there is a lot of money already put into it .
Click to expand...

This is NOT me beating up on you, but getting to the point of having the engine installed is probably 20% of the way into the project. The integration is where people get bogged down. The last apparent 20% of the job is 80% of the work.

With that being said, yes, your price is fair for somebody who wants a K20 X and has neither a K20 nor an X--or the money to pay up front for a built car.
 
any idea what "fully built" means? that can be a pretty big wildcard for prospective buyers. Things that would be interesting to me:
1. what parts have been installed
2. what machine work has been done
3. who did the build (high end honda tuning shop, the machine shop on the corner, DIY, etc)
4. how long ago was the build done and how is the engine stored
5. has the engine ever been fired since build
6. are there any warrantees or guarantees on the work

and if you don't know, you don't know, I get it. but that makes everything a much bigger gamble for the buyer.
 
Longitudinal said:
This is NOT me beating up on you, but getting to the point of having the engine installed is probably 20% of the way into the project. The integration is where people get bogged down. The last apparent 20% of the job is 80% of the work.

With that being said, yes, your price is fair for somebody who wants a K20 X and has neither a K20 nor an X--or the money to pay up front for a built car.
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i think that having the engine sitting and everything cut is more then 20% but its ok , the car itself is very clean car to start with i think it sold
for 9k or something like that on BAT when it was stock , if you go and start dealing with rust , buying the kit buying kit for the mounts and more , you end up very fast over 12k , i see tons of ppl buying honda engines thinking they will less and they blow up 10 min after , i had that bad luck also with my fiat , 2 min after starting it head gasket blow up and i ended up fully building it for turbo ,

someone asked what is fully built , the machine shop that works with AMS in IL put this engine to take on around 800hp
it new 0 miles ,

lets say this car is around 4k as is
k20 built for turbo is 4-6k
trans with lsd 2500 all day
clutch set up 1800
the hours of work to put it in
matt mount kit ( you need mortgage )
aluminium radiator
2 sets of wheels
coilovers
new breaks all around
dallara body kit
porsche center muffler
and there is more that i cant remember

i not taking it hard this is not my car just helping my buddy selling it .
 
ok , so the selling it with everything didn't work , i'm going to part it out , the roller must go first

also the dallara kit is new , and later this week ill get more pic of more parts .
 
Parting out that car would be a sin. Couple questions... What type coilovers are they? Are they installed, or spare parts? Did the Honda management system come with it? Or does it still need an engine management system purchased? What happened to the original fiat engine? Does that come with it, or did it blow up, or get sold ? Are the new brakes, stock brakes? Does the new K20 engine have either a dyno or detailed build sheet on what was done inside the motor when rebuilt? (I dont need to see that now, just if it exists for future reference). What type are the second set of spare rims?
 
sub-zeroil said:
i think that having the engine sitting and everything cut is more then 20% but its ok
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I'm speaking from limited experience; I've only done the swap five times.

I might be a slow worker, but the kits took me about 40 hours to build from scratch. You get a 40 hour head start by buying the kit compared to building the whole thing from stock materials, so I am not counting that 40 hours toward build time.

Let's say that there's 10 hours in cutting the body and removing original spot welded fixtures to a point at which you can bolt the engine into place. Heck, let's say that you spend 20 hours doing that work.

Still ahead of you is:

40-60 hours of cutting, trimming, and welding up all of the reinforcements and replacement panels;
20-40 hours of finishing and painting the engine bay;
40 hours of integration of K20 wiring harness and fixing whatever delights you find in the FIAT wiring along the way;
5-10 hours integrating cooling systems together to do a neat job of it;
10 hours removing, rebuilding, modifying, and reinstalling pedal box (you'd be crazy to do this swap without performing this maintenance);
10 hours modifying Chinesium header to fit plus building exhaust;
5-10 hours integrating fuel systems and cleaning up the fuel tank;
5-10 hours putting the interior back together, depending on how far it was taken apart for the swap;
10 hours of recovering the tool that you just had five seconds ago.

I might be a slow worker. OK, I *am* a slow worker. I prefer the term "methodical," but that's just me. Matt's goal for me to build a K20 conversion from start to finish was 150 hours. I never once met that goal. I was closer to 200-250, depending on what had to be done (every car is different, and every conversion is different in some way.) I have no doubt that a faster worker can actually do it in 150 hours, especially if he is not as thorough and meticulous as I am, but is the home hobbyist going to be faster? I think that the typical hobbyist working in his home garage will spend 300+ hours performing the swap to completion. And that's really not a terrible amount of time. It's work that we enjoy on a car that we care for. But it *is* going to take time, and getting the body cut to fit the engine is just the start.

Now, with all of that said, $12k seems like a fair deal assuming that the engine build was done correctly. It's a solid roller with a lot of expensive parts. I think the problem is that most X owners need to chip away at that $12k rather than spend it all at once. For most of us, it would be better to spend $16k spread across two years than to spend $12k in one shot.

Selling a built K20 by itself opens you up to a much broader market. Same with the trans.
 
Longitudinal said:
I'm speaking from limited experience; I've only done the swap five times.

I might be a slow worker, but the kits took me about 40 hours to build from scratch. You get a 40 hour head start by buying the kit compared to building the whole thing from stock materials, so I am not counting that 40 hours toward build time.

Let's say that there's 10 hours in cutting the body and removing original spot welded fixtures to a point at which you can bolt the engine into place. Heck, let's say that you spend 20 hours doing that work.

Still ahead of you is:

40-60 hours of cutting, trimming, and welding up all of the reinforcements and replacement panels;
20-40 hours of finishing and painting the engine bay;
40 hours of integration of K20 wiring harness and fixing whatever delights you find in the FIAT wiring along the way;
5-10 hours integrating cooling systems together to do a neat job of it;
10 hours removing, rebuilding, modifying, and reinstalling pedal box (you'd be crazy to do this swap without performing this maintenance);
10 hours modifying Chinesium header to fit plus building exhaust;
5-10 hours integrating fuel systems and cleaning up the fuel tank;
5-10 hours putting the interior back together, depending on how far it was taken apart for the swap;
10 hours of recovering the tool that you just had five seconds ago.

I might be a slow worker. OK, I *am* a slow worker. I prefer the term "methodical," but that's just me. Matt's goal for me to build a K20 conversion from start to finish was 150 hours. I never once met that goal. I was closer to 200-250, depending on what had to be done (every car is different, and every conversion is different in some way.) I have no doubt that a faster worker can actually do it in 150 hours, especially if he is not as thorough and meticulous as I am, but is the home hobbyist going to be faster? I think that the typical hobbyist working in his home garage will spend 300+ hours performing the swap to completion. And that's really not a terrible amount of time. It's work that we enjoy on a car that we care for. But it *is* going to take time, and getting the body cut to fit the engine is just the start.

Now, with all of that said, $12k seems like a fair deal assuming that the engine build was done correctly. It's a solid roller with a lot of expensive parts. I think the problem is that most X owners need to chip away at that $12k rather than spend it all at once. For most of us, it would be better to spend $16k spread across two years than to spend $12k in one shot.

Selling a built K20 by itself opens you up to a much broader market. Same with the trans.
Click to expand...
yes i know about hours to build cars , and the rest of the cars i build just junk porsches . i think you are right i was just hoping someone will see the value here its a very clean car , its hurts me to part it out .
 

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sub-zeroil said:
i think you are right i was just hoping someone will see the value here its a very clean car , its hurts me to part it out .
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I am quite confident that you can find a buyer for the roller, then sell off the other bits separately.

It is super difficult to recover one's investment in a built engine unless you are well known in the community for that engine. If you're not well known, all of the "what ifs" and "what abouts" come up. Even if confronted with receipts, doubters can still say "those are just receipts for parts. They don't prove that those parts are really in the engine." And they're right. They have to trust that the engine is as advertised.

That last pic with an installed Dallara kit is not the car you're selling, correct? The kit is still not installed?

Can you put out an asking price for the roller along with more pictures of its current status? I have a local-to-me friend interested in a solid X project.
 
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