Air Conditioning Retrofit RHD

[Stuartc]

There are threads covering air conditioning retrofit but this is for a RHD vehicle ROW in my case for Australia on an “88 Bertone.
Rather than covering similar already covered info on LHD retrofits if anyone has any specific questions on a RHD conversion (remember ROW RHD models never had factory air conditioning offered) then I’m happy to let you know exactly what I did. Probably won’t be many as UK owners are unlikely to want to add A/C and Australian & NZ units are few in numbers.
All the complex jobs retrofitting Air Conditioning in my “88 Bertone are done jobs remaining are sourcing a parallel flow condenser, running charge hose underneath along the tunnel to the condenser and engine bay hoses to compressor.
Throughout the process my aim has been to update and improve the efficiency of the system which is actually pretty good but I’m in Australia and every bit, however small in efficiency improvements can make a big difference.
A parallel flow condenser which is far more efficient than the original Tube & Fin is one area which I’m yet to source. Due to the unique frontal area I’ll probably invest in a custom made condenser to maximise surface area, TBA.
Whilst at the front I’ve added another OE fan but now are 2 speeds.
Low speed is active on the activation of the A/C system.
High speed is triggered either by the trinary switch on the receiver/dryer reaching “High Pressure” threshold or
Radiator 2 temp sensor is triggered or
New sensor on thermostat reached threshold or
Dash mounted fan switch is activated. Dash switch is also fan status via LED illumination,
Green is normal backlighting
Blue is low speed fan state and
Red is high speed fan state.

I’ve also upgraded the lighting and heater control by using LED’s and a linear potentiometer for the heating controller which uses a solenoid controlled heater tap which will reside in the engine bay getting rid of any control cable.
As the vehicle is RHD the main harness to the rear of the car is the same side of the tunnel to LHD but the RHD has a drivers footrest which has a scollop for the main harness but not enough for the low side barrier hose back to the compressor. There also the accelerator rod. As such I’ve run the barrier hose inside the length of the tunnel making sure to avoid and secure so not to fowl the gear shift hardware. Pipe exits just before spare tyre well and as the LHD version up rear bulkhead an into engine compartment.

From here another modification is the heater which is used in the original system to help regulate the R12 by heating it before returning to the compressor which is always active.
I’ve removed the “Frost Valve” and now have a relay which is controlled via the trinary switch which will disengage the compressor in the event of a “High Pressure” state (safety switch) and a thermostat for the evaporator also connected to compressor control relay to disengage compressor when cold enough. Saying this these are all connected through the OE air conditioning relay modules and fuse/junction box. Only modifications to the A/C relay pack & junction/fuse box is direct electrical supply from battery via new fuse boxes. Therefore HVAC, cooling fans not relying on “Brown Wire” and ignition switch limitations.
The compressor control relay allowcompressor to cycle on demand and prevent “ice up”. The “TX” valve also helps regulate the evaporator temperature.
Internally RHD is obviously reverse to LHD so outboard vent hookups were 3D printed from original LHD units in “mirror image” and the centre stack air distributor had to have the vacuum control change to opposite side aswell as the recycle/fresh air vacuum control. All done and working perfectly.
My attention now is the engine side of things, compressor and I’m now considering with all the advances in EV whether it’s worth considering a 12v driven compressor? No, not going to electrify the X1/9 but running the compressor via electrical means is a possibility and I thought I’d ask anyone if they’d done any research into this possibility?
I’d rather do all the necessary work on the vehicle now before I strip and do the body and then find I have to drill holes or make modifications after the car has been fully restored and painted.
Any insight be greatly appreciated

 

[rachaeljf]

Hi Stuart, this is great stuff! Would you mind showing how/where you ran the pipes to the condenser and drier/trinary valve?
Cheers Rachael

 

[ng_randolph]

My attention now is the engine side of things, compressor and I’m now considering with all the advances in EV whether it’s worth considering a 12v driven compressor? No, not going to electrify the X1/9 but running the compressor via electrical means is a possibility and I thought I’d ask anyone if they’d done any research into this possibility?

Converting to an electric A/C compressor is going to be difficult for several reasons.

• 12V units are hard to come by. Sanden, as an example, has a good selection of 100V+ units, a few 48V units and one 24V unit.
• The alternator in an X1/9 does not deliver enough power to run a worthwhile A/C compressor. The largest alternator put in the X1/9 from the factory was 65A. This is the peak current; at cruising speeds (~2500 RPM) you only get about 36A or 500W. Accounting for other loads, perhaps half that would be available to run a compressor. That would come out to less than 1 kW of cooling capacity; a fraction of what the stock system provides.

You can find 12V electric A/C systems on Amazon etc., but looking at the specs, they just don't provide a lot of cooling.

 

[Stuartc]

Hi Stuart, this is great stuff! Would you mind showing how/where you ran the pipes to the condenser and drier/trinary valve?
Cheers Rachael

Hi Rachael,
Pretty much nothing is changed from the front of the car to the cabin between LHD & RHD.

Line from condenser comes in exactly the same just behind the receiver/dryer cover and then exits the Frunk into steering rack cavity same as LHD. Only difference is the LHD aims down about 30 degrees to clear battery tray in LHD format whereas I made hole directly forward of receiver/dryer outlet as I want the pipe to enter the cabin high as possible to help clear pedals.

I don’t have pipe in atm but hole and grommet in place ready for new pipe to thread through from receiver/dryer to tx valve. Pipe turns left and up and then curves around to let tx valve thus clearing both clutch and brake pedal

 

[Stuartc]

Converting to an electric A/C compressor is going to be difficult for several reasons.

• 12V units are hard to come by. Sanden, as an example, has a good selection of 100V+ units, a few 48V units and one 24V unit.
• The alternator in an X1/9 does not deliver enough power to run a worthwhile A/C compressor. The largest alternator put in the X1/9 from the factory was 65A. This is the peak current; at cruising speeds (~2500 RPM) you only get about 36A or 500W. Accounting for other loads, perhaps half that would be available to run a compressor. That would come out to less than 1 kW of cooling capacity; a fraction of what the stock system provides.

You can find 12V electric A/C systems on Amazon etc., but looking at the specs, they just don't provide a lot of cooling.

Yes totally agree with you but the reason I brought this up was there are now retrofit kits available which use the std 12v car system to run the a/c compressor.
One example is this Porsche 911 kit which utilises std 12v car system. They do recommend you upgrade the alternator but systems seems to be relatively effective if you watch the video.

Electric Air Conditioning for Classic 911 (single condenser)

• NOTE CURRENT LEAD TIME OF 4-5 WEEKS • All kits now include our Gen 2 Blower. The Electrocooler electric air conditioning system for Porsche 911 is a revolutionary update for the complicated A/C and ventilation setup fitted to Porsche 911 models from 1974 to 1989. The kit is a total redesign...

www.classicretrofit.com

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Hi Rachael,
Pretty much nothing is changed from the front of the car to the cabin between LHD & RHD.
View attachment 67599

Line from condenser comes in exactly the same just behind the receiver/dryer cover and then exits the Frunk into steering rack cavity same as LHD. Only difference is the LHD aims down about 30 degrees to clear battery tray in LHD format whereas I made hole directly forward of receiver/dryer outlet as I want the pipe to enter the cabin high as possible to help clear pedals.View attachment 67600
I don’t have pipe in atm but hole and grommet in place ready for new pipe to thread through from receiver/dryer to tx valve. Pipe turns left and up and then curves around to let tx valve thus clearing both clutch and brake pedal
View attachment 67601

Are you planning to use hard lines for the "pipes"? That looks like a rather sharp 90* bend coming out of the bulkhead and under the pedals (your last pic). Another option might be a 90* "short drop" fitting and two hoses - one connected to each end of that fitting. There's a few versions of them; available in male or female, crimp or thread on, O-ring style, any size. Here's just two examples:

 

[Stuartc]

Are you planning to use hard lines for the "pipes"? That looks like a rather sharp 90* bend coming out of the bulkhead and under the pedals (your last pic). Another option might be a 90* "short drop" fitting and two hoses - one connected to each end of that fitting. There's a few versions of them; available in male or female, crimp or thread on, O-ring style, any size. Here's just two examples:
View attachment 67624

Hi Jeff,
My aim when making the 34mm diameter penetrations through the Frunk wall and interior bulkhead was that they misaligned so that pipe was already turning towards centre of vehicle. Obviously can’t see from pictures but once pipe comes through interior grommet it’s already turned towards its destination so a soft curve is only needed
Could even make this pipe a hardline, haven’t decided as yet.

 

[Stuartc]

Whilst I’ve been doing all this work my aim has been to optimise the whole system therefore I’ve improved the cooling fan settup which is now a 2 fan 2 speed setup as described previously, will also be fitting a parallel flow condenser and I’ve also improved the air box by sealing the evaporator within the hvac box rather than the horrible seal Fiat originally used.

Im now considering using a variable displacement a/c compressor utilising a mechanical a/c control valve rather than an electronic a/c control valve.

Has anyone looked into this or using this style of compressor?

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Could even make this pipe a hardline, haven’t decided as yet.

I had the same consideration - to use hardlines or run regular hoses the full length. I finally decided to stay with regular hoses; mostly due to being much easier as well as less costly, but also to reduce the number/type of fitting connections and therefore potential leaks.

I’ve also improved the air box by sealing the evaporator within the hvac box rather than the horrible seal Fiat originally used.

I agree. I did the same. The original design leaves a bit to be desired.

With the box's top air 'flapper' opening located directly above the evap core, and that flap being open a lot of the time (e.g. in "vent", "heat", or "AC" modes), I also added a screen above the core to help prevent all of the crap from falling into the core's fins. Mine was clogged up with a mix of stuff when I took it apart.

Has anyone looked into this or using this style of compressor?

By "variable displacement" do you mean a 'scroll' type compressor?

I did consider using a much smaller model of compressor instead of the standard Sanden 508. With modern compressors being much more efficient, and the X's cabin so small, it really doesn't need that huge 508 unit. Especially given the tight engine compartment confines. However in the end I decided to keep it simple and used a 508 as it's a direct bolt-in replacement.


Definitely ditch all of the horrible factory system's assortment of valves, sensors, switches, etc. Much better to use a single trinary switch in lieu of all that garbage. Also, if you use a electronic compressor, note that the factory system does not have a thermostat to regulate the cabin temperature; it is either fully on or fully off. The heater core can be opened to adjust the air temp but that is extremely inefficient. I added a standard thermostatic control switch to the dash. It not only turns the system on and off, but also has a temp probe that reaches to the evap core and cycles the compressor to match the desired temp setting on the rotary control knob. They are universal and very inexpensive:

 

[Stuartc]

Hi Jeff,
Yes already fitted thermostat to core of evaporator. I’ve wired it in series with the trinary pressure switch which then runs to the compressor clutch control relay. Thus as long as under/over pressure and ice over not about to occur the ground signal is maintained to the compressor control relay.

Modern vehicles utilise variable displacement compressors controlled either by a mechanical or more likely electronic pressure valve which can either ramp up or ramp down the compressor by adjusting the angle of the wobble plate this making the compressor a variable displacement unit. This negates the clutch from engaging/disengaging to control system pressure.

This article describes it best

Variable Displacement AC Compressor

The variable displacement AC compressor of an air conditioning has a tendency to reduce the power of the engine and produce a distinctive "thumping" sound.

myjackfrost.com.au

Im looking into maybe using a mechanical version as the electronic version is controlled via PWM and really the X1/9 is too “analogue” to really utilise this method.