TheTallOne
Daily Driver
Since I do spin the car around quite a bit I'm gonna get my new floor frame/bracing in before I plasma cut the old floor out
Big Man, Little Car
- Thread starter TheTallOne
- Start date
TheTallOne
Daily Driver
While the car was upside down I thought I would measure how much I will actually be affecting my ground clearance. With the 3 inch high tube welded underneath the frame I will be effective lowering the car's clearance by 1.25 inches. I don't know how far people have commonly lowered their cars, but 1.25 inches without changing suspension angles at ride height seems reasonable
Alex(Tenerife)
True Classic
I thought you might be tempted to drill out all the spot welds that held the floor in place and build up from there
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
There is a reason why the coolant pipe cover was SO difficult to remove, it is structural to the chassis of the exxe, or why there are SO many spot welds holding the cover in place.
Keep this in mind for whatever alterations planned, do not simply ignore-discard what the folks at Bertone/Fiat designed into the exxe chassis.
Bernice
TheTallOne
Daily Driver
Just thinking about cutting all those spot welds hurts, lol
Not sure I'm going to make much more progress today, but I did cut the holes for pin stands to insert into the new frame rails, which had to be done before I cut the tube and start fitting it. I will probably also mill slots and holes for extending the drains before I cut the tube
TheTallOne
Daily Driver
The tunnel will be extended down with plates/braces to meet my new cross rails in at least 3 places. I have yet to decide if part of the floor and new coolant cover will be bolt on for ease of access/maintenance when I get to working the steering box, brakes, etc
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
That three piece section of stamped sheet metal is stronger or as strong as a single rectangular steel tube at lower weight. Keep in mind strength/rigidity comes from a combination of structural shape, materials and how the shape will be loaded.Greg you have drawn what I was trying to describe, but the green is 2 pieces of metal welded somewhere (can't remember where).
I've been thinking and the best way I can think of is pretty much what you have in mind I think.
View attachment 78094
You definitely want to pop off the out sill if just to check the condition of the yellow inner sill. The reason know about this section of the car if I had to repair mine. out sill corrosion repair which on digging showed I had inner sill corrosion as well. I had to remove out sill, I then cut out the bad of the inner sill, cut down a repair panel for the inner sill, welded it in and welded on a new outer sill.
If you do one side at a time it "should" be strong enough to peel back the outer sill. It was on mine when I did the repair, but I did mine with the car on its wheels.
As you cut in, repair all corrosion you find to help keep the strength of the chassis, and then you know you are building onto something solid.
I think the outer is the easy part, its the rest of the floor I think might be where you have to get creative
Simply replacing that entire structure with tubes is OK long as the structural demands are fully and properly understood.
Bernice
MikeHynes
True Classic
Here's a pic of how someone else lowered the floor on a race X. (Not sure who did this, but MWB lists this car for sale.)
One thing to consider is that the floor of the car, which is what the seat will be sitting on, is very low on the car. If you hit a curb (or something else like that) at speed, the bottom of the car is going to take quite a jolt. I wouldn't want that jolt to be passed up into my fat ass. If you're strapped in tight you could be injured? Of course nobody ever runs over high curbs - right?
One thing to consider is that the floor of the car, which is what the seat will be sitting on, is very low on the car. If you hit a curb (or something else like that) at speed, the bottom of the car is going to take quite a jolt. I wouldn't want that jolt to be passed up into my fat ass. If you're strapped in tight you could be injured? Of course nobody ever runs over high curbs - right?
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Take the time to read and fully understand what was discussed in this current suspension thread.
Suspension Thread.
convert the X1/9 to MR2 uprights, realize all of those benefits and improve the X1/9s suspension geometry for performance applications without the effort required to convert to double A-arm. This is the most sensible suspension upgrade suggestion I have heard. Take it a small step further and...
xwebforums.com
1.25" could have more impact on chassis/suspension behavior than initially appears..
Don't just "do stuff" without a sound and known overall plan for what the finished goals are.
Bernice
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
If you haven't seen this two-part series, here's a take on how to fit a tall person into an X1/9:
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
The stock floor pan drop was dropped more in the LeMons racer due to driver height.. OK for a track car with limited suspension movement and known operating conditions (except when the exxe went "farming")..
Might not be OK for a road car as ground clearance is important for a car operated on public roads. From drive ways to speed bumps to un-even roads and more.. the exxe is already really low as delivered, lowering more often results in very real problems..
Bernice
Might not be OK for a road car as ground clearance is important for a car operated on public roads. From drive ways to speed bumps to un-even roads and more.. the exxe is already really low as delivered, lowering more often results in very real problems..
Bernice
TheTallOne
Daily Driver
That is now going to be my entertainment for the next couple evenings, thank you
As to the lowering discussion, I'm dropping the overall ground clearance by 1.25", not (yet) altering suspension geometry. Having parked my stick suspension Lemons X next to a number of factory delivered cars from and Alfa Romeo Guilias and mustangs to Honda Civics I am confident that ground clearance will not be an issue. The X sits quite a bit higher than any of those cars
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
But also keep in mind the X's suspension sits incredibly high, leaving huge open gaps at the tops of the fender arches (even worse at the front than the rear). Typically I lower mine a few inches just to get a decent overall appearance for my taste. That leaves little ground clearance already. Reduce it another 1.5" by lowering the floor and it will pretty much be resting on the ground at full ride height.
TheTallOne
Daily Driver
This car has very little hope of being stock appearing by the end of this. I'm anticipating at least 5 inches wider overall in my eventual attempt to engine/trans swap and use factory available axles and bolt in hub bearings. At some point this becomes a test bed for the Lemons car too. So flares will definitely be reworked for better looks
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I would imagine the box tubing that you are adding to each rocker (to lower the floor) will add as much - if not more - chassis stiffness/reinforcement as the stock lower tunnel (cover over the cooling tubes). Plus there's always been a lot of debate about what extent that tunnel really makes any difference; others have completely left it off with no long term effect.
For a very radical "roadster" build I considered completely removing the entire floor including the lower AND upper tunnels to install a completely flat floor inside and out (for a different reason). And weld the doors shut to make the chassis stiffer than it was originally.
For a very radical "roadster" build I considered completely removing the entire floor including the lower AND upper tunnels to install a completely flat floor inside and out (for a different reason). And weld the doors shut to make the chassis stiffer than it was originally.
TheTallOne
Daily Driver
Making more progress, I have my new dropped frame rails cut, and am working on fitup. What I haven't yet decided is how to route the cowl drain and where to put new drain holes on the rail. Suggestions welcomed
When we spoke on the phone we discussed a not selecting the final profile for tapering and enclosing the end of the rails until there car is more finished, maybe even sitting on its wheels.
I've been thinking about it, and suggest that you trim the reinforcement rail bottom (top in the photo) for clearance, and weld an extension to the drain tube now, leaving it longer than the bottom of the rocker panel reinforcement. that allows you access to weld connection between the old drain tube and the extension now while you still have good access and can properly prime and paint the welds and have good access for seam sealer.
You can always cut the rail and tube extension for a suitable profile later.
Have you primed the inside of the rail reinforcement yet?
I've been thinking about it, and suggest that you trim the reinforcement rail bottom (top in the photo) for clearance, and weld an extension to the drain tube now, leaving it longer than the bottom of the rocker panel reinforcement. that allows you access to weld connection between the old drain tube and the extension now while you still have good access and can properly prime and paint the welds and have good access for seam sealer.
You can always cut the rail and tube extension for a suitable profile later.
Have you primed the inside of the rail reinforcement yet?
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TheTallOne
Daily Driver
Progress continues, I extended the cowl drains and welded in my new frame rails. Also welded on the new cross member under the original seat/foot well junction. This may not be it's permanent home, but it is enough to let me proceed til seat fitting time somewhere in the future. The next step is going to be to cut out the original floor to give me better access to stitch weld the inside of the new frame rails to the original inner rail
