Continuation . . .WARNING: Lots of pics. Bandwidth intensive.

Seagis

Seagis

Wait . . . what ? ?
So I wanted to add more to this thread, but I couldn't add a bandwidth warning to it, so I figured I'd start a new thread and pick up where the old one left off.

I finally managed to get some pictures last night. While some of them show the orphaned hoses, some others are just extra pictures that show the rest of the engine area since maybe someone else may spot something remiss that I wouldn't have caught.

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Now this diagram shows the hoses coming from the green nipples on the thermovalve being routed to two different locations (if I'm reading it correctly) but on the car they're both going into the side of the carb. Is this right?

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This small hose coming from the coolant tank cap was just dangling straight down to the ground. Hmm . . .

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The assembly on the right side of this picture mounts under the rear of the air cleaner. I rotated it 45 degrees to give you a better picture.

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A shot from the right side of the bay, near the timing belt (obviously.) Nothing looks to be out of place here, at least not that I can tell.

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I mistakenly thought that the small valve in the center of this picture was the EGR valve, so I removed it and flooded it with carb cleaner and some Seafoam, but it didn't appear to do anything. What exactly is this thing?

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Here you see the gulp valve and the two hoses that caused me to start the original thread to begin with. :)

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Up above the fuel filter, to about the 1:00 position, is another valve-type contraption that (I think) may be the EGR valve. Anyone want to confirm or deny this? Additionally, directly below that is what appears to me to be an unplugged port of some kind, although it may just be a recess where some bolt fits in to mount the head to the block. :confused:

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A shot from inside the engine bay between the engine and the rear trunk area.

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The whole engine bay. The blower in the upper left hand corner has been missing the hose that connects it to the air filter housing ever since I got it.


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Under the carb at the manifold.

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Another shot of what I think may be the EGR valve.

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One final shot, above the block showing the area between the block and the firewall.

OK. Sorry for the huge post, but I guess too much information might have been better than not enough. My primary objective is to get those hoses put back the way they're supposed to go. I'm going to be ordering a replacement thermovalve from Matt in the next few days, and I have access to replacement hoses due to the fact that I work in the parts department of an automotive dealership, so this stuff is hanging on the spools on our back wall. :excited:

Thanks again, everyone!

Chris
 
Defintiely a case of "The Lord helps those who help themselves" in that you have supplied plenty of great pix so that knowlegeable folks can help you get it all sorted out.:)

I can help with one---the thin tube that runs from the coolant tank cap area to the ground is supposed to run that way. This is the overflow tube to direct coolant overflow to the ground to prevent engine compartment messes in case of overflow.

Technically the coolant tank does NOT serve the same function as a coolant overflow tank used on almost all cars today. Because it has a pressure cap, it is considered part of the pressurized cooling system.

Liquid cooling systems as used on most cars have to be designed to acknowledge that air rises to the top of liquid, so there has to be a storage and fill location whose location is the highest point in the cooling system, so that air has a place to work its way to, and out of, the system. Conventional car designs that have very low front profiles and necessarily low mounted radiators, like my nephew's 1990 Corvette, need a place higher than the rest of the cooling system to serve as the fill point so they use a pressurized remote storage tank. That is the same function as our coolant tank. All modern cars have a second nonpressurized tank that is simple a catch basin for any coolant that overflows due to expansion from the main system. The radiator caps are designed with a two way valve that allows the excess expanded coolant to be sucked back into the main system when the main coolant cools off and thereby contracts. If you look on the overflow tank of many cars there will be a hot line and a cold line which demonstrates the change in volume from expansion.
 
Some more help..

Pic 5: not egr but fuel/vapor separator. Part of the fuel tank venting.

Pic 6: the non-fabric hose is from the charcoal canister, used to run to a heat shield on the exhaust. On later cars this port on the top of the canister is left un-hosed and open. This port is the canister's intake of fresh air, to purge the canister. The smaller hoses go to the intake and to the fuel vapor system.

The cloth one looks like it's going to something else.
 
A few more pictures . . .

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In picture 7 of my original post above is the valve that fits into this spot on the engine block. I removed it so that I could clean it out.

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The part in question. The port on the left flows to the fuel/vapor separator. There is another port (on the other side) that goes to the fuel filter. Here I have it full of Seafoam.

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Another shot showing both ports.

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This is some of the liquid that came out of the part after soaking in the Seafoam for about 5 minutes.

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Looking again up at picture 7 above, you will see the port I mentioned that sits beside the part I've removed. I'm not sure what it does, but the smaller, bent end of this coat hanger shows just how deep it goes. In the first picture of this particular post, where you look through the spare tire well, you can see it more clearly.

Sorry to be so full of what may seem like basic questions, folks, but what are these two parts? Should I be worried that the port I'm talking about is unplugged?

Thanks!

Chris
 
Dude!

That's yer fuel pump. They are mechanical on stock carbed cars.

May I suggest putting it back the way you found it:shh::whistle:

Now, refer to your top picture......

The pic I have below is a pic of the same area on my '86, only from the bottom with the starter and cooling hoses removed.

"A" is the opening for the mechanical fuel pump. Your car is a carbed car so the pump is mechanical, and works off the aux shaft inside the engine, it turns and a cam on that shaft presses on the "button" on the part that goes into the block, which creates the pumping action. My car is Fuel Injected (FI), and FI cars have a separate electric pump, so the port is covered with the "block-off" plate you see in "A".

"B" points to the dome-looking part with the nipple on it. On my car you can see that there is a hose and hose clamp on that nipple. This is part of the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system. You car has nothing on there, which can be at best a mess because oily fumes will come out of that hole---at worst, it could be a fire hazard if it soaks the engine with oil.

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Additional info:

Online shop manual pages for the fuel pump: http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/X_FSM/PDF_Files/X1-9_102-02_10-81.pdf

Online shop manual pages for the PCV system: http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/X_FSM/PDF_Files/X1-9_102-58_10-105.pdf then scroll down to page 10-107.
 
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Dan's right...

That's definitely your fuel pump!! 2 ports: Fuel in and fuel out

If in question, you can find them on eBay for around $35 bucks.
 
bbrown said:
Fuel in and fuel out.
Click to expand...
So the line from the fuel/vapor separator runs to the fuel pump, and the other line runs to the fuel filter from the fuel pump, correct?

That is, the lines aren't both flowing the same direction, correct? Fuel flow is in opposite directions?

As a side note, part of the reason I had been doing all of this was due to the stalling I had noted in a separate post. Research through some other users' posts makes me believe (since my symptoms were almost identical) that the culprit is a stuck EGR valve. This is why I kept asking about that. I'd like to remove it and clean it, but I don't know where to find it. Can any of you find it in the pictures, or point me in the its location on the engine?

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll put the pump back on when I get home tonight.
 
The EGR valve is part of a huge contraption that should be evident looking thru the trunk access panel. See the pic and diagram on page 10-110 of the online shop manual: http://www.midwesternmedicalmachine.com/~damonfg/X_FSM/PDF_Files/X1-9_102-58_10-105.pdf

Edit based on Greg's post below:
Oops, Nevermind:tomato:.....what I thought was the base assy for the EGR valve was not, in that pic it woud be lower on the block....just refer to the shop manual pic for guidance.
 
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That's not the EGR valve. That's a manifold of vacuum switches for controlling the egr and other stuff. I don't see the actual EGR valve in any of the pics, it may have been removed and/or bypassed.
 
Chris... see the Vacuum Chart Ricardo sent you...

This is how the entire circuit should be connected to function correctly as Larry C in New Mexico can attest... and once the engine is warm and the three-way valve opens... most of what it controls is not an issue anymore.

The only difference in operation would be the EGR function.

With the condition of he parts and the fact that you are no longer tested... I'd remove it all... If you want to keep them... you'll need to do some searching for some operable replacements.

I can help (either direction you choose) but this method of communication is rather tedius and there are so many facets involved. If you wanna talk... e-mail me direct and we can swap phone numbers...
 
Black-Tooth said:
This is how the entire circuit should be connected to function correctly as Larry C in New Mexico can attest... and once the engine is warm and the three-way valve opens... most of what it controls is not an issue anymore.

The only difference in operation would be the EGR function.

With the condition of he parts and the fact that you are no longer tested... I'd remove it all... If you want to keep them... you'll need to do some searching for some operable replacements.

I can help (either direction you choose) but this method of communication is rather tedius and there are so many facets involved. If you wanna talk... e-mail me direct and we can swap phone numbers...
Click to expand...
Well, I can order a new thermovalve cluster from Matt over at Midwest for about 15.00, and I can get the hoses that fit anything in the engine bay right off of the back wall of our parts shop.

Like I said in another post on the board, though: I don't much care if I keep it or ditch it. I'd just rather do what ever would be easier, although that's hard to determine given that it's hard to see exactly what's missing in the car. :) I'm guessing it might be easier to just remove it, and that was how I was leaning originally any-whoo, although Larry states here that it might make the car run better if it is all left intact and repaired.


Last things before I head off to sleep for the night:

Given your explanations of where the EGR valve is located, I tried to find it:

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Is this what I've been looking for?

Aaaand: I had mentioned above that I took off the fuel/vapor separator, cleaned it out and replaced it. I noticed, however, that it is uni-directional. There is an arrow on it that shows the direction of the flow. Given what you guys have explained above, I get the impression that the flow direction of this part is counter to the flow direction of the fuel filter itself. I believe I may have re-installed it incorrectly, as the arrows on both the separator and the fuel filter are going the same direction. Currently the arrows are both pointing from the fuel pump and to the engine, but I am inferring that the separator needs to be pointing back to the pump from the engine. Is this correct?

Thanks once again, everyone.

Chris
 
Nope, that's the thermostat housing. The stat itself comes out of the bottom of this housing.

The EGR valve would be sitting on top of an EGR base, bolted to the side of the block, below the exhaust manifold, close to the back of the engine where it meets the trans.

Based on the fact that a lot of your emissions equip is disconnected and or obviously non operational (like those broken off nipples on the color coded vac valve), I wouldn't be surprised if the reason you are having a hard time finding the EGR is because it was already removed.

What kind of regs does your State have for vehicle inspections, specifically emissions? If you need the smog gear to pass a visual test or a functional test, then that's obviously gonna be driving the train.
 
Then I'd start a new thread (ADHD is everywhere!!! :lol: ) with the title of something like, "Help Me Disable All Emission Controls on a '79" or similar.

Hopefully that will attract the attention of those who have done it, to tell you what to disconnect, seal up, etc.
 
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