Courtesy Light Delay Relay - what year, '86 and up?

[tvmaster]

Found this at MWB:

Courtesy Light Delay Relay (Fiat Bertone X1/9 1985-88) - U8

Courtesy Light Delay Relay (Fiat Bertone X1/9 1985-88) - U8

www.midwest-bayless.com

After checking what I could find on the Wiki, which stopped with the '81 electrical diagrams, I couldn't see where this relay was inserted into the schematic chain for the interior lights. Anyone know where it integrates, i.e. right after the door jams, or somewhere else further down.
If it were simple enough to insert with a Bosch holder, it would be a nice addition to an earlier model.

 

[ArtBasement]

Don't bother. It doesn't do much of anything. There are aftermarket controllers out there that do it much better.

 

[tvmaster]

Don't bother. It doesn't do much of anything. There are aftermarket controllers out there that do it much better.

Okay, good advice. I’ve seen aftermarkets on eBay, but thought factory may be more elegant? Guess not. Question remains - I wonder where in the circuit path an aftermarket would be inserted.

LED Car Dome Interior Light Delay Switch Module with Dimming Effect - 1 to 30s | eBay

When Door is open - the light will switch on. Can be used with LED and incandescent lights up to 1A (12watts). For incandescent lights the red wire don't need to be wired. Dimming module. This module is designed to do this function.

www.ebay.com

Of course, quality control of any aftermarket product is always the question…

 

[lookforjoe]

The relay interrupts the violet-wh & violet-blk wires. I don't recall how the stock relay was wired, I revised it for a Volvo relay

 

[tvmaster]

cool. thanks sir. So you get a 10 second delay on lights-off, or the like?

 

[Jonohhh]

Interesting. My 85s interior lights do not come on when the doors are opened, which I always assumed was because the delay relay is missing, but judging by that listing it appears that I'm not supposed to have one in the first place?

@tvmaster do your interior lights go through a relay or is it wired straight to the door switches? It sounds like the latter, but if it's the former it should be quite a simple upgrade?

I know I'm not much help, just trying to understand yet another difference between the early and later fuse panel.

 

[tvmaster]

Interesting. My 85s interior lights do not come on when the doors are opened, which I always assumed was because the delay relay is missing, but judging by that listing it appears that I'm not supposed to have one in the first place?

@tvmaster do your interior lights go through a relay or is it wired straight to the door switches? It sounds like the latter, but if it's the former it should be quite a simple upgrade?

I know I'm not much help, just trying to understand yet another difference between the early and later fuse panel.

The ‘74‘s courtesy light comes on/off when the door opens/closes. It’s immediate for either driver or passenger door. There’s only one light. So there is no relay in the current design. I’m still learning, very slowly, the exxe’s electrics. There is a panel switch for the light as well.
If your lights do not come on, maybe the door switch is faulty, or disconnected? Same result with either door?
From everything I can find, a delay relay wasn’t installed until ‘86? Anyone who knows different, please chime in.

 

[Jonohhh]

The ‘74‘s courtesy light comes on/off when the door opens/closes. It’s immediate for either driver or passenger door. There’s only one light. So there is no relay in the current design. I’m still learning, very slowly, the exxe’s electrics. There is a panel switch for the light as well.
If your lights do not come on, maybe the door switch is faulty, or disconnected? Same result with either door?
From everything I can find, a delay relay wasn’t installed until ‘86? Anyone who knows different, please chime in.

Thanks for sharing your cars configuration. There were SO MANY slight changes to these cars over each production year it's absolutely crazy how different a car that behaves similarly can be.

 

[tvmaster]

Thanks for sharing your cars configuration. There were SO MANY slight changes to these cars over each production year it's absolutely crazy how different a car that behaves similarly can be.

Look in the Wiki for the “color” version of the 1974 electric schematic - it was laboriously colored and is much simpler to follow, even if it isn’t relevant for beyond ‘78.
Scroll to the bottom of the ‘Electrical’ section of the Wiki and find this line, the link is within the text, or just click ‘This Copy’ below.

• The '74 owner's manual includes a foldout wiring diagram. This copy has the wire colors added by Xweb member Mark

 

[ng_randolph]

Interesting. My 85s interior lights do not come on when the doors are opened, which I always assumed was because the delay relay is missing, but judging by that listing it appears that I'm not supposed to have one in the first place?

@tvmaster do your interior lights go through a relay or is it wired straight to the door switches? It sounds like the latter, but if it's the former it should be quite a simple upgrade?

I know I'm not much help, just trying to understand yet another difference between the early and later fuse panel.

Do the lights come on when you turn them with the switch in the center console?

Your '85 should have the delay circuit, and the lights in both doors should come on when either door is opened. But: the lights in the doors came in two varieties, one with a built in switch, the other without. My driver's door has the type with the switch, the passenger door has the type with no switch. Perhaps one has been replaced by a previous owner, perhaps Bertone put in whatever they had at hand that day. The lights with a built in switch will not come on if the switch is off; doors open or not. Perhaps this is what is going on with your car? You operate the switch by pressing in on the lens, towards the front or back, depending on which way the light was installed.

Even if you delay circuit is missing, you should be able to turn on the lights with the switch in the center console.

 

[lookforjoe]

cool. thanks sir. So you get a 10 second delay on lights-off, or the like?

Door closed after entry, all interior lights (I have 6 total - puddle, doors, B pillar) stay on for measured interval (don't recall what the Volvo timer is, prolly around 20sec). If I trigger the remote entry, they also turn on, I have the parking light circuit included.

 

[ArtBasement]

Okay, good advice. I’ve seen aftermarkets on eBay, but thought factory may be more elegant? Guess not. Question remains - I wonder where in the circuit path an aftermarket would be inserted.

LED Car Dome Interior Light Delay Switch Module with Dimming Effect - 1 to 30s | eBay

When Door is open - the light will switch on. Can be used with LED and incandescent lights up to 1A (12watts). For incandescent lights the red wire don't need to be wired. Dimming module. This module is designed to do this function.

www.ebay.com

Of course, quality control of any aftermarket product is always the question…

https://www.amazon.com/Dome-Light-Dimmer-Delay-Timeout/dp/B016B414PI/ I replaced my Fiat delay relay with this. Much better. Some electrical issues came up: the original relay was triggered off by the starter circuit. Using this starter circuit on the new module gave some weird back looping and I had to switch to the ignition-on signal. So I can't be in my car with radio on AND courtesy lights on... the ignition needs to be on for the radio, and off for the lights

 

[Jonohhh]

Do the lights come on when you turn them with the switch in the center console?

Your '85 should have the delay circuit, and the lights in both doors should come on when either door is opened. But: the lights in the doors came in two varieties, one with a built in switch, the other without. My driver's door has the type with the switch, the passenger door has the type with no switch. Perhaps one has been replaced by a previous owner, perhaps Bertone put in whatever they had at hand that day. The lights with a built in switch will not come on if the switch is off; doors open or not. Perhaps this is what is going on with your car? You operate the switch by pressing in on the lens, towards the front or back, depending on which way the light was installed.

Even if you delay circuit is missing, you should be able to turn on the lights with the switch in the center console.

Yes, the center console switch does indeed toggle the lights as it should, but the doors have no effect. There is an empty relay slot populated with spade terminals where fuse panel diagrams state the delay relay goes on later years. I believe the lack of *any* relay in this spot is the cause of the door switches not working. Unfortunately both of my lights are the non button kind, but I guess it's one less thing to break.

This is on my 1985, which is (to relate back to the original post) out of the year range for a delay relay, which apparently began in 86. So it appears that the addition of the delay relay itself was either: not directly tied to the switch to the ATC fuse panel (with pre 86' ATC panel cars getting a standard relay in this position), a mid-year change, or not only for 1986-on, as the listing states.

My belief is that there is supposed to be a relay of *some* sort in the fuse panel to control interior lights whether it's a delay relay or not, which would make adding the feature as OP wants to, as simple as replacing a traditional relay with a delay one.

Unfortunately I then remembered that OP has a pre-ATC fuse panel so any contribution I had is essentially moot. Looking at the circuits though, it doesn't appear that it would be all that difficult to add a delay relay to an existing non-relayed circuit with a little bit of splicing to the door switch wiring.

 

[ng_randolph]

Yes, the center console switch does indeed toggle the lights as it should, but the doors have no effect. There is an empty relay slot populated with spade terminals where fuse panel diagrams state the delay relay goes on later years. I believe the lack of *any* relay in this spot is the cause of the door switches not working. Unfortunately both of my lights are the non button kind, but I guess it's one less thing to break.

This is on my 1985, which is (to relate back to the original post) out of the year range for a delay relay, which apparently began in 86. So it appears that the addition of the delay relay itself was either: not directly tied to the switch to the ATC fuse panel (with pre 86' ATC panel cars getting a standard relay in this position), a mid-year change, or not only for 1986-on, as the listing states.

My belief is that there is supposed to be a relay of *some* sort in the fuse panel to control interior lights whether it's a delay relay or not, which would make adding the feature as OP wants to, as simple as replacing a traditional relay with a delay one.

Unfortunately I then remembered that OP has a pre-ATC fuse panel so any contribution I had is essentially moot. Looking at the circuits though, it doesn't appear that it would be all that difficult to add a delay relay to an existing non-relayed circuit with a little bit of splicing to the door switch wiring.

Straying from the OP's question, but: My '85 has a working courtesy light delay circuit. I suspect it arrived with the "new" fuse box (with ATO / ATC fuses), which came around 1985. You can get the courtesy lights to come on with the door switches (but with no delay) by adding a jumper to the socket for the delay circuit. Jump the BLK/VIO wire to the WHT/BLK wire, the wiring diagrams labels these ""L" and "P" respectively. I came across what purports to be "GENUINE SIPEA ALFA FIAT 131 X1/9 X19 5 PIN INTERIOR LIGHTING DELAY RELAY 0801" on eBay. Photos and all:

 

[ng_randolph]

Straying from the OP's question, but: My '85 has a working courtesy light delay circuit. I suspect it arrived with the "new" fuse box (with ATO / ATC fuses), which came around 1985. You can get the courtesy lights to come on with the door switches (but with no delay) by adding a jumper to the socket for the delay circuit. Jump the BLK/VIO wire to the WHT/BLK wire, the wiring diagrams labels these ""L" and "P" respectively. I came across what purports to be "GENUINE SIPEA ALFA FIAT 131 X1/9 X19 5 PIN INTERIOR LIGHTING DELAY RELAY 0801" on eBay. Photos and all:

View attachment 56945View attachment 56946View attachment 56947View attachment 56948

You can make out "P", "I" and "+" in the photo; the remaining two should be "31" and "L":

 

[Stuartc]

“88” Bertone
The delay lights work really well, so well
Infact I added another OE Fiat delay timer for the Frunk & boot.
Open door/s light remains on for 2 mins if doors are left open then exstinguish.

Open door/s then close light stays on for around 10 seconds before exstinguish.

Open door/s then close and on start lights extinguished almost immediately.

Very nice feature for what is a old school vehicle The only thing it lacks that modern cars do/well my other car does is rather than switching straight off it’s fades gradually.

The “fade” feature is easy to add but I think I’ll wait until I’m really looking for jobs to do before adding that feature

 

[LoveX1/9s]

I have an 85 with air and power windows. My lights use to come on. The digram shows the relay goes in the upper left of the fuse box. Mine is missing. My then mechanic tested the fuse box. I wounder why the lights stoped working

 

[lanciahf]

I replaced the one on my spider with this aftermarket one and added one to my Scorpion.

mirafiori.com - Login

Hi All,

85.5 Spiders are equipped with a Courtesy Light Timer Delay relay. Lights stay on for about 10 seconds after the doors are closed. Mine was not working when I purchased the car so I set about investigating why.

First the relay is a SPIEA 0679 Timer relay, Alfas and Ferraris also used this relay.

I was hoping to find a used one but couldn't. Apparently no one else can by looks of my google searches.

I found something similar at 12voltplanet in England. I took a chance and ordered it.
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/12v-univ ... elay.html#

The aftermarket timer relay is Mahle MT10. I just had to move around the wiring terminals from the stock timer relay based on the diagram below using the existing relay holder. Now the lights work as they should. The courtesy light and the light for the ignition switch stay on with the door open. Close the door and the relay turns the lights off after 1O seconds. I was feeling pretty good about myself until I encountered the cold start injector. Anyway....

I hope this helps others and if someone is so inclined this relay can also be retrofitted to earlier spiders.

SPIEA 0679 Dimmer Courtesy Relay Terminals,
+ +12V hot
31 Ground
L To lights, connects lights to ground when relay closes
P Door switch (grounds when door open)

Mahle MT10 Terminals
1 To door switch (to trigger interior light) - SPIEA 0679 - P
2 Spliced feed from interior light +12V supply - SPIEA 0679 - +
3 Earth/ground - SPIEA 0679 - 31
5 To earth side of interior light - SPIEA 0679 - L
Last edited by lanciahf on Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ralph DeLauretis
1977 Scorpion, #1409
1985 Pininfarina Spider

 

[kmead]

The late Bertone wiring diagram page for the interior lights with the delay relay.