Cutting springs/susp setup?? (long)

///Mike

///Mike

'76 & '85
Trying to put together an interim spring/damper combination 'til I can put the coilovers together. The car in question is an A/C equipped '85, so it's heeeavy.

I have some early (rebuildable) strut housings, an NOS set of orange Koni inserts for same, a set of NOS factory late model struts, a set of IAP springs, and a bunch of stock springs. What's the best combination I can build out of these parts?

Current thinking is to cut down a set of factory rear springs to use in the front, in conjunction with the IAP rear springs, then mount them all to the early housings fitted with Koni inserts. I'm hoping that cut rear springs up front will help balance the car without having to fit a front anti-roll bar-- I'm not sure I'll want to run a front anti-roll bar with the coilovers, so I hate to buy one until I do some more experimentation.

Does anyone have any experience with such a setup? If so, how much should I cut off the rear springs to level the car when using the IAP rears? Are the rear springs going to be too stiff for the front if I cut them short enough to level the car? Should I raise the front strut mounting points on the tubes to help lower the car, then cut down the stock rear springs to work with the modified housings, so as not to raise the front spring rates so much?

Anyone running Koni orange inserts who can offer any input as to the initial adjustment settings for such a setup?

For the long term I was hoping it might be possible to put together a well balanced street package that does not require an anti-roll bar so I could build a stiff set of coilovers that also do not require an anti-roll bar, and then swap between the two setups depending on how I'm using the car.

Thoughts? Ideas?

TIA,

///Mike
 
My car currently has cut rear springs on the front and cut rear springs on the back. For the front I removed 1.5 coils then re-tapered the end, for the rear just .75 of a coil and then re-taper. Works well on the street, not too harsh and well balanced. Of course this is my opinion and I have seen some posts where people find the cut rears on the front to be too harsh. FWIW this setup recommendation originally came from Steve H.. Sorry but no idea how the rear IAP springs compare to cut stock rears.

Vince
 
Excellent info

CW has it that the IAP springs are ~1" lower and 15% stiffer than stock. Dunno if that's correct but if it is they're probably similar to your cut rear springs.

I don't mind stiff springs. I'm thinking of this as the soft setup and I may wind up running way stiffer coilovers full time (the car isn't a daily driver at present). I've only driven the car a few miles but I'm surprised at how soft the stock suspension is in comparison to even my daily driver MB Sportline.

What dampers are you running?

Thanks for the help,

///Mike
 
I currently have some vintage KYBs. Honestly not enough rebound dampning but they are tired so new KYBs may be enough. Your Konis would be more than enough. Like you I am going to convert some early strut housings to use standard adjustable sleeves with coil over springs. However In my case I am using some Bilstein strut inserts that while not adjustable can be revalved to spec. Eventually going with much higher rates as well for autox use.

Vince
 
Great minds think alike

I have a set of of Mark P's custom strut housings that I intend to fit with specially valved Bilstein inserts. The problem is I don't have enough experience with X springs to know what rates I want to use, so there's no way to know how to valve the dampers.

Interesting that you're thinking along the same lines. In my experience Bilsteins are far superior to other off-the-shelf makes, so I'd rather use them than Konis, etc, even though they will need to be valved for the application. (Nice thing is, the Bilsteins are so much cheaper than Koni race dampers that they're still less expensive even after revalving.)

Are you aware of a Bilstein insert that will fit inside the early X housings? I had hoped the VW Bunny inserts would fit but have been told they won't, although I have not checked for myself. If there is an insert that'll fit I'll build another set of coilovers out of my early housings.

Thanks for the input.

///Mike
 
You do indeed have a remarkable memory Jim

However, I believe it was Ulix who cautioned me that the Bilstein inserts for Bunnies might not work in an X. My memory is nowhere near as good as yours but IIRC he did not make the statement from firsthand knowledge.

I suppose I'll eventually find out, since Bunny inserts are what I have planned for the MarkP custom housings. But if anyone can definitively state whether or not the Bilstein inserts will work in early X housing that'd be great info to have.

Cheers,

///Mike
 
Oops...

see there... a memory is a tricky thing. I read these sentences:

Are you aware of a Bilstein insert that will fit inside the early X housings? I had hoped the VW Bunny inserts would fit but have been told they won't, although I have not checked for myself. If there is an insert that'll fit I'll build another set of coil overs out of my early housings.
Click to expand...

but my brain triggered on the "VW bunny Inserts" and completely ignored the "Bilstein" part. :hmm: Ahhh well... a mind is a terrible thing. :)

I went back and searched the Xweb 1.0 archives for "bilstein" and "bilstien" and really didn't find anything that contradicts your recollection. Lots of threads from Ulix saying the KYB insert can fit, but are a little too soft and that the Bilsteins are too big.

I did find one thread where Mike Mittelstead was able to find a Bilstein that fit the tube, but he had other issues that prevented the strut from working for him:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1169324976/Correct
 
The Search Meister strikes again

I had forgotten that MM had said he'd found an insert that fit the housing. AFAIC, that's the real battle. The top mount is easier to fabricate than the housings.

Just wonder which insert fits. Gee, if there were only some way to get in touch with MikeM....

Hmmm... maybe that's the insert Vince has in mind-- he seems to have a plan.

Great info Jim. Thanks for the help!

///Mike
 
Yes I have a set of the MK1 Rabbit "sport" strut inserts from Bilstein part # P30-0032-M0. They fit the stock strut housings. Two challenges to fitting them. The top gland nut that comes with them is the wrong thread and the stock gland nut does not slide over the shaft. The Bilstein one is larger so you could get it turned down and re-threaded but I may do something different. The second challenge is the top mount, the small threaded shaft fits the aluminum cone but the main shaft is much larger than the stock Fiat struts so something would have to be done with the upper bushing spacer assembly. That part seems easy though. Here is a link to the spec sheet, in German. http://spiggs.sdf-us.org/pics/fiat_pics/P30-0032.jpg
 
That's great news!

Have you checked to see if the Fiat gland nut will work if the center hole is bored to the same diameter as the original Bilstein nut?

Any details/thoughts you have would be appreciated. I have two sets of early strut housings and I'd love to find a straightforward way of using them.

Thanks!

///Mike
 
I want to buy your Koni inserts

Seriously. If you're thinking about Bilstein's or something else. Please, pretty, pretty please. - Kent
 
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