Cutting X springs

Discussion in '1.0 Mirror' started by User1, Sep 11, 2008.

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  1. User1

    User1 RETIRED Admin, pm OFF Staff Member

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    <TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Cutting X springs<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 14 1999 at 1:55 AM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->...and damn are my arms tired! `whew'!

    Just trying something I heard once: a wise Xhead once mentioned to me that a cheap and (relatively) easy way to get a stiffer suspension going was to take a set of stock X1/9 rear springs, cut one coil off the ends, bend the new end down flush-ish (by heat with torch) and put them on the front (with a stock set of rears on the rear of course)...

    They said that following this procedure would not change the ride height from stock, but if some lowering was also desired, to cut off 1 & 1/2 coils instead and that would lower the nose of the car by about an inch...

    It was several months ago that I heard that, and just tonight I got curious enough to bust out the hacksaw & spring compressors.

    I am doing one side at a time for comparison's sake. I took a spare rear spring and cut it (I only cut the one top coil off for starters), used a mapp-gas torch (like those little propane bottle torches, only mapp-gas burns hotter) to bend the first 1/2 of the new top coil down in a similar fashion to how the original end was bent, pulled one front spring and put the cut spring on & put 'er back together.

    Took a quick spin up the street to get the suspension settled, came back and by use of a level, determined that the front end is sitting perfectly level! So that much works - I shall continue tomorrow on the other side... heck, I might even start over and take that extra 1/2 coil off. I'll let you all know how it goes. Peace, -Mac.



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    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 14 1999, 9:27 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac:
    When I read that you where cutting your springs last night I laugh, because I also was involved on something very similar.

    Back in 1992 I purchased from FAZA (Al Cosentino) a set of stage 2 springs, these springs are about 100% stiffer and they drop your car about 1" 3/4.

    I installed them in my '86 and latter on I purchased a set of Koni's, as you can imagine the handling improvement was tremendous but at a cost
    very rough ride.

    Last March I wrecked my X1/9 (you are not supposed to be reading the billboards on the I-5 at rush hour)anyway I found another '86 with 51,000 miles on it, it was a project with primer all over the place but looked promising, and I had been trying to get it to the best possible shape (it's the same I am having the problem with overheating, but that is a different story)

    So last weekend I swapped the carbon-metallic brakes from my wrecked car and last night I swapped the struts and WOW,what a difference.
    It's a complete different car, but to be honest I think I like the soft suspension better (I may be getting too old) so I may leave the Koni shocks, with the stock springs.

    The only "small problem" here is that when I got the Konis I did not meassure the distance between the bottom of the strut and the base where the spring sits (on the original strut), and the Koni's for the rear I think they are for shorter springs.

    The question here is: 1) Do you think I could compress the original spring to fit the shorter Koni strut?, 2)Do you think that the spring will work properly? or 3) I better start saving to get a set of springs from IAP for about $200?
    I hope that the stock springs will work with the Koni's
    (a very long story for a small questions)

    Right now I am trying to save the money to get the car painted, and I am already having serious
    problems with my wife, she keeps saying I should have gotten a Ford station wagon instead (can you imagine?)

    If you have any suggestions please let me know thank you and best regards, Gilles






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    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->strut/spring stuff<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 12:39 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Gilles wrote:
    : The only "small problem" here is that when I
    : got the Konis I did not meassure the distance
    : between the bottom of the strut and the base
    : where the spring sits (on the original strut),
    : and the Koni's for the rear I think they are
    : for shorter springs.

    IMO the differences in the two stock spring sizes would not be big enough to dictate a different strut length. We know this to be true because Fiat only offered one strut for 1300s, and a slightly different one for 1500s, although according to the texts, either spring could have come on either car... this leads me to believe that this is not your problem...

    : The question here is: Do you think I could
    : compress the original spring to fit the shorter
    : Koni strut?

    Probably yes. What I would do if in doubt is to take the strut (or if you have inserts, then the complete strut/insert assembly) with no spring on it and extend it out to max travel on the workbench, then take one of the springs you intend to fit to it, and lay that out beside it uncompressed. Measure the distance of the strut from perch to perch, then the uncompressed length of the spring.

    I can tell you that the rear spring on my '75 stands about 10 inches tall uncompressed, but the stock rear strut perches are only about 7 inches apart at max travel, so if your difference is 3 inches or less I would say there is no problem, go ahead and do it.

    If the difference is so great that you are still suspicious, come and tell us your measurements and we will hash it over in the forum :) -Mac.
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    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Wow!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 14 1999, 9:35 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac,
    I checked out Bob Hokansens X, they have cut rear springs on the front and you cannot push down on the front of the car at all!

    But OTOH, I don't know how much they cut the springs.
    A while back, I set up a spreadsheet with the formula for calculation coil spring stiffness.
    By my calculations, here are the stock spring rates:

    Front: 165 lbs/in
    Rear: 183 lbs/in

    If you cut off one full coil and bend the end exactly like it was, here are the new rates:

    Front: 220 lbs/in
    Rear: 229 lbs/in

    Note that now the front and rears are pretty much the same rate. This is because the front starts out with 4 active coils and the rear with 5, so cutting a full coil has more of an effect on the front. A cut rear is probably preferrable, because it leaves more coils, thus each coil has to deform less (less twist of the spring wire).

    Your new springs should be 39% stiffer.

    Cutting 1.5 coils gets you to:

    Front: 264 lbs/in
    Rear: 261 lbs/in

    My spreadsheet doesn't do change in ride height due to cutting yet. This is more complicated and amongst other things I need to measure the distance between coils of a stock spring on the car, loaded.
    Good to know that you found that the cut rear spring gives the same ride height as the stock front.

    What are you going to do with the rear? If you leave it stock, you will have changed your handling to more understeer. X1/9 racers do this to increase rear wheel traction on corner exit, but I don't know if you'll like it on the street. Let me know.

    Cool project!

    Ulix
    Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 8:58 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix:

    Last night while driving home I remember reading (a while back 7 yrs +/-) on how to order the Konis
    I remember that they where asking you to measure your stock shocks like I did yesterday, in order to get the right ones for your car.
    Perhaps was an old IAP's catalog or Bayles, but I ended ordering them through a wholesaler and I never meassure the distance on my stock struts.
    The bottom line is: Did the X1/9's came at one point with two different spring lengths on the rear? Because if they did that will explain the fact that once I installed the Konis (after the Faza springs) my car gained a bit more clearance on the rear.
    Perhaps I could ask Julian, it seems that he has access to all kind of old specs and hard to find information.
    Best regards, Gilles
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    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->stock spring variations<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 12:22 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Gilles,

    All years of the X1/9 (1300cc and 1500cc) came with one of two factory spring combinations, according to the books I have access to. This subject appears to be the occasional topic of debate on some Fiat enthusiast websites, I personally am not certain exactly what process was made during the cars' production, but I listen to all sides of this debate, examine the books that I do have (I don't have a massive library, but I do have a few key publications) and draw my own conclusions...

    According to the 1300cc *and* the 1500cc shop books, for example, either model of X could have come from the factory with either a "green" set of springs or a "yellow" set. What this means is that each spring is tagged at the factory with either green or yellow spraypaint to indicate which set of springs your car is wearing. The differences between the two sets that came on the Xs are rather minute (judging from this book anyway) and although many folks agree there were two types used, it is when & why that are the areas of occasional disagreement.

    Some folks say the 1300 came with a slightly shorter springs, this being the "green" marked set, and that the 1500s came with the slightly taller "yellow" set.

    I don't know wether that is true. I do know that my '75 had a barely-visible dash of green paint on its springs, but the stock springs on my '80 are weathered from age to the point that no paint is visible. At any rate (no pun) the difference between the two types offered seems very small by this book, a matter of millimeters, and because the 1300cc *and* the 1500cc books both mention that any car could have come with either set (but nowhere can I locate a mention of why) it is my personal belief that the green springs probably came on the non-air-conditioned Xs of any engine size, and the Xs with a/c likely were assembled with the "yellow" springs to offset the additional weight of the a/c equipment. This is the only theory I can come up with that jives with the info in the shop books.

    Anyway, I have seen both types of spring and the differences are so minute that I wouldn't worry about it much. If you go get some springs off of a partscar or something, and you don't know wether they will be the ones to match your current springs, it is easy enough to remove and visually compare them.

    Anyway, the company asking you to measure your shocks may be because the 1300 and 1500 *shocks* ARE slightly different, and although WE know they are interchangeable, the parts counter guys are likely not to stray from the "proper application" angle, and would want to know anyway. Or at least, that's my guess. -Mac.

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    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Koni lenghts<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 4:31 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good try Mac, but I think it is simpler than that. Looking at both 1300cc and 1500cc rear shock you can see there is a difference in design in the bottom bracket. It was tought that the 1500cc shocks were longer. In fact, the shocks seems to be the same lenght, but the bracket is welded at a different angle to sit the 1500cc shocks a little higher to compensante for the gain in engine weight.

    As noted by Mac, both models are totally interchangeable and I don't believe there is any relation with the springs.

    The question is mainly theoretical since there is no more new Koni's available for the X1/9's. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->my Koni experience . .(long)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 8:31 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi guys,

    I know exactly what Gilles is talking about, as I am in the same boat . . here, then is my saga . .

    I bought an '81 X in 1996 with just 22K miles and
    in relatively pristine shape. When the original shocks began leaking at around 30k miles in 1997, I began looking into what was available in terms of replacements. The Konis seemed to be regarded as the "ultimate" but most places I contacted said they were no longer available. When I called Bayless, they said "Don't know what they're talkin' about, we got 'em." So, I ordered 'em.

    Had 'em installed by a local guy I found who had a lot of Fiat experience, but most of it not recent. When I got the car back, I noticed two things: 1. the car handled a lot better, 2. the car was noticeably higher in the rear.

    After a lot of telephone enquiries about this situation (I was not yet online at this time) I finally spoke with Chris Obert, who said he seemed to recall that some of the Konis for the X1/9 were "manufactured incorrectly". He went on to suggest that it might be possible to reweld the spring perches on the rear shocks to the correct locations, with the unfortunate side effect of voiding the Koni lifetime warranty.

    Not too long after, I bought a 1987 X that nobody seemed to want, to use as a daily driver. While it has kept me busy with various issues (overheating, electrical gremlins, stuff falling off, etc.) I recently found the time to compare its OEM rear struts with the Konis on the '81. Sure enough, the distance from the upper bolt on the hub assembly to the spring perch was about 1.25" LESS on the OEM strut than it was on the Konis. (The front strut measurements were identical.) So, it would appear that the height problem is not spring-related . .

    So, anybody else been down this road, or have any suggestions? I would guess that any rewelding would require removal of the innards of the struts, don't know if that would even be possible..

    Thanks in advance,

    John Padden
    Madison, NJ

    PS- I tried contacting Koni directly but was unable to get a live person, only a steer to a local shop that installs Konis. A guy there happened to be familiar with X1/9s, and suggested that I might have gotten the 1300 rears by mistake. But as Daniel stated, the only difference between the two is the angle of the bolt bracket (item# for 1300 rears: 87-2170; for 1500 rears: 87-2171, which is what I have. .) <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Anonymous[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Untitled<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 6:23 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->John wrote:
    I
    might have gotten the 1300 rears by mistake. (item# for 1300 rears: 87-2170; for 1500 rears:
    87-2171, which is what I have.)

    Daniel: You really got 1500cc rears. The 1300cc sits lower.

    John: So, anybody else been down this road, or have any suggestions? I would guess that any
    rewelding would require removal of the innards of the struts, don't know if that would even be
    possible..

    Daniel: Welding indeed required the removal of the innards. Removal and refitting of the innards is not really hard to do, the hardest part often being unscrewing the top, but it will probably void the warranty. On the other side, I never heard about anybody sending shocks to Koni under warranty... so I wouldn't care too much.

    Rewelding of the bottom bracket is a solution. One step more is to go with the coil-overs. A little more expensive but easier to do. Another alternative would be to fit 2.5" diameter (race) springs over the stock unmodified strut. They are available in a variety of lenght, so it is possible to have a setlowering the car at a reasonable level. A bottom spacer (to avoid having the spring moving laterally) and a top mount (especially made or a stock one modified) for the same reason than the bottom spacer will be required. The springs could also be stiffer (there's a lot of choice) for a better handling, or as soft as the stock one for a smooth ride.

    If somebody is interested, I can check what lenght of spring I would suggest to stay close to the original height. New race springs worth around $55 US each.

    But the easiest solution would be to sell me the Koni's... ;-)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Daniel Forest"); // --> </SCRIPT>Daniel Forest <NOSCRIPT> Daniel Forest </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Oups! I'm the anonymous!(NT)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 6:27 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I forgot to fill the cases, I was too much in a hurry to "talk"...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Gilles"); // --> </SCRIPT>Gilles <NOSCRIPT> Gilles </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Koni suggestion<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 10:02 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->John:
    I strongly suggest you to leave the Konis the way they are.

    If I where you I would try to modify the springs (get a par from a junk yard cut them and experiment with the ride), or to try to get a shorter springs set for example from IAP's ($200 may sound like a lot of money, but you will not believe the handling improvement)

    In my case I got the spring set from Faza, and they are extremely hard, the good side is that the car turns like a roller-coaster car. Have you ever drove a high performance go-kart?

    I am considering selling the Faza springs in order to get the ones from IAP's (at least a bit softer)I may be getting too old for the rock solid suspension (but honestly you forget about the ride on the first turn) trust me!!
    Best regards, Gilles.
    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->so you mean the Konis are defective? <nt><!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 1:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start --><nt> = no text :) -Mac.

    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Daniel Forest"); // --> </SCRIPT>Daniel Forest <NOSCRIPT> Daniel Forest </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Not at all<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 1:28 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The 1500cc Koni's were just making the car sit higher at the rear than the 1300cc ones.

    I didn't mean they were defective at all. Koni's are still the best shocks you can find for an X1/9... if you can find some!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->my mind is going...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 8:33 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I completely misread your post - I could have sworn you meant something else, but upon re-reading it I see now that it is just that bad ground in my brain again ;p

    I do now understand what you said! Yep, I was aware of the strut mount difference, just thought someone said this particular set of Konis was long-shafted or somesuch - who knows. I need sleep! Peace, -Mac.

    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "_";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "q";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Daniel Forest"); // --> </SCRIPT>Daniel Forest <NOSCRIPT> Daniel Forest </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It was probably mon bad anglais...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 17 1999, 7:29 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I know my texts could look confusing some time. I mean I think I want to mean I was thinking what I think I was wanting to mean... or something like that.

    BTW, Matthias answered in the mirafiori forum he was believing there was 2 lenghts of 1500cc struts, the longest one for the carbs, the shortest one for the Fuel Injection. To my knowldege Fiat (and Koni) had just one part number for the rear shocks of the 1500cc. It may be possible the late European 1500cc received some 1300cc part number shocks.

    Bye
    Daniel<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e"; document.write("Matthias Stiller"); // --> </SCRIPT>Matthias Stiller <NOSCRIPT> Matthias Stiller </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->You need more sleep ;)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 19 1999, 3:27 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Daniel,

    it wasn't the Mirafiori Forum, it was here :)
    But I don't know if the short 1500 shock I described was actually a 1300 shock or not. I didn't compare part numbers. It is just the fact
    that stock F.I. X are comparable lower than their
    carbed 1500 counterparts. Koni just lists a short shock for the 1300 rear and a longer shock for the
    1500 rear.

    Hmmm, what happens if I open the koni's housing ?
    I am able to put the insert into an early 1300 housing ?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Anonymous[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Untitled<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 20 1999, 6:44 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Matthias wrote: Hmmm, what happens if I open the koni's housing ?
    I am able to put the insert into an early 1300 housing ?

    Good question. I think both 1300cc Koni and 1500cc Koni got the same internal parts, even the same lenght, but I never had the chance to get a hand on any, so I can't guarantee.

    I don't think you can swap Koni's internal into a stock Fiat housing. In fact, I did something similar. I took the Konis internal and I fitted them into Kyb housings. But it took a mix of both parts, some slight modifications and it is not working as good as I was expecting. I wouldn't do it again.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e"; document.write("Matthias Stiller"); // --> </SCRIPT>Matthias Stiller <NOSCRIPT> Matthias Stiller </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->different shocks<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 12:17 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->AFAIK there have been 2 different shocks in the rear.

    The shorter one was used on the 1300s and the later 1500 f.i. The longer ones were only used on 1500 carb models.

    The front shocks have been always the same.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "4";n54_em = n54_em + "5";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("John"); // --> </SCRIPT>John <NOSCRIPT> John </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hmmmmmm. . .<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 9:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thanks to all for the advice . .had to duck out of the discussion for a bit, as Hurricane Floyd is currently flooding my garage and threatening my baby!

    Matthias wrote:

    :AFAIK there have been 2 different shocks in the :rear. The shorter ones were used on the 1300s :and the later 1500 f.i. The longer ones were :eek:nly used on the 1500 carb models.

    Interesting . . wonder what was the reason for the height difference between the 1500 carb & f.i., and was this situation unique to the Konis? I remember looking through the Phil Ward X1/9 Collectors' Guide and noticing that a lot of the European (i.e., presumably carbed) 1500s pictured seemed to be riding higher in the rear than most of the 1500s I've seen hereabouts ..

    Gilles wrote:

    :try to modify the springs or get a shorter :spring set

    I will probably try this first (thanks Mac for the detailed spring-cutting procedure). One question on the spring sets - I would imagine they
    are designed to lower both ends of the car equally, so if there's a discrepancy to start with due to the higher rears, wouldn't it still exist once the new springs were on?

    Daniel wrote:

    :the easiest solution would be to sell me the Koni's. .;^)

    Daniel, if I decide to sell you get first crack at them :^)

    BTW I spoke to Bruce of Bruce's Parts Bin a while back about Koni availability - he said he had checked with the company & they said they would do a new run of X1/9 struts if they could get a parts supplier (or combination of several) to commit to purchase 100 sets. He seemed to think that was unrealistic, but who knows - with worldwide forums such as this one maybe enough interest could be generated . .

    Cheers,

    John <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->just 100 sets of Konis!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 9:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Are they talking 100 sets of FRONTS? Or do they mean like 50 fronts & 50 rears? Or 100 of each? No matter how they slice it, I bet anyone with enough gusto to tackle a project like this could make it happen. It would be quite a process to gather & orchestrate all the buyers, but it could be done... and a lot of X1/9s would be reeeally happy to see the ol' UPS truck comin' round the corner on delivery day! -Mac.

    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "4";n54_em = n54_em + "5";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("John"); // --> </SCRIPT>John <NOSCRIPT> John </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->oops . .<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 18 1999, 8:20 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->After posting that, thought I'd better try to verify it (was referring to a conversation that took place about 2 years ago . .)

    Called Bruce yesterday and asked him again - he said he thought a minimum order would be more like 500 SETS (i.e. set = all 4 corners) Definitely a lot less likely to happen.

    Sorry about the disinformation!

    John<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->could still be done...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 18 1999, 11:47 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->...but the organizational effort to rally all the buyers together would be enormous!

    Maybe if one org. fronted the money, and then sold the units off to recoup... ahh, maybe someday waaay in the future SeaX might try to organize this kind of thing (talk about "resources for enthusiasts" wow!) but right now our group doesn't have that kind of budget to play with. Wouldn't it be nice though, if you could go in the SeaX Store and buy your new Konis? -Mac.

    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e"; document.write("Matthias Stiller"); // --> </SCRIPT>Matthias Stiller <NOSCRIPT> Matthias Stiller </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hmmm Part 2<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 16 1999, 11:26 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->:Interesting . . wonder what was the reason for
    :the height difference between the 1500 carb &
    :f.i., and was this situation unique to the Konis?
    :I remember looking through the
    :phil Ward X1/9 Collectors' Guide and noticing
    :that a lot of the European (i.e., presumably
    :carbed) 1500s pictured seemed to be riding higher
    :in the rear than most of the 1500s
    :I've seen hereabouts ..

    It's actually very easy. Koni is a European firm.
    And Europe mostly received carbed 1500s. So they
    made a strut especially for the 1500. Yes, we have
    also 1500 f.i. versions here but they are rare and
    I think Koni decided against building special units
    for them because of they high costs.

    Matthias<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->spring rates!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 12:46 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey Ulix, Thanks for the rates! I was very curious about the changes I've made rate-wise, and this is just what I was wondering about. Once again, you industrious fellow, you have nailed it for me.

    Read my updated report "saga continues" for more on what I did since the original post. -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Springs - the saga continues...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]September 15 1999, 1:35 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Okay, glad to see such positive response to my original post on this topic, so I will give an update on the latest happenings...

    Yesterday I took the whole front suspension apart and started over. I decided after the initial 1-coil cut on one spring (which yielded a noticably stiffer spring which did not alter ride height at all) that I wanted to go ahead and take off that extra 1/2 coil and see what happened.

    So I got the uncut spare rear spring, and the 1-coil cut one was taken back off the car. I tire quickly of hacksaws, so went out and bought a small cutting wheel for the bench grinder. This was cheap and a great labor-saving device, otherwise I might still be in there with the hacksaw! ;p

    Anyhow, I cut the next 1/2 coil off the 1-coil cut spring. I was concerned at first that there might be trouble, because I had heated and bent this 1/2 coil to form the new end, and now I was cutting it off too - I thought there might be complications of heat deformation that would make trouble for me, but I was wrong - fortunately, when I heated the spring to bend the new end, I had heated it exactly 1/2 coil away from the cut, so when I went back to cut the next 1/2 coil, I simply was cutting exactly where I had heated it, and the NEW new end had no deformation further down the spring! Good...

    So I did that, then I took the second spare rear and skipped straight to cutting it off 1 & 1/2 coils down. When the cuts were done, I put the grinding wheel back on the bench grinder, and ground a beveled edge around the cut end to remove the sharp edge. The ends I made actually look nicer than the stock ends!

    Once cut and beveled, I took one to the vise. I clamped the vise onto the spring at the cut end, compressing the new end to the point where it touched the next coil below it. While held there, I heated the coil exactly 1/2 coil down from the new end. I used the mapp-gas torch mentioned earlier, heating in just the one spot, switching sides (inside/outside) of the coil for more even heat. I got it just hot enough to start glowing and then stopped. I let it cool only for a second or two, then backed the vise off slightly and held it where I wanted it to stay when cool. Then I gave it a minute, took it out of the vise and examined it. It had a tendency to return slightly farther than I wished, so I would just repeat the process, going in little steps like this, until I got it to sit exactly as the original end had.

    This yielded one finished spring, 1 & a half coils cut off, and the newly bent end which caused the overall length of the spring to get about 1/4 coil shorter still overall.

    Once that one was done, I did the other in exactly the same fashion, stopping periodically to compare the two together, to do my best to make them an even height when done. The process went well overall, but I did notice the new end on the second one was bent just a hair further down than the first. I debated about wether to heat it again and pull it back slightly, so as to have an exact match, or wether I was just being too much the perfectionist, and if the minute difference would even matter once the springs were compressed on the car. I decided not to mess with it, and to put them on as-was. If something was screwy, I could always tweak it back later...

    Next I hit both springs with a wire brush to remove years of road grime from them. Once cleaned, I sprayed both with a black rust-inhibiting spraypaint. Then the moment of truth, I reassembled the car with the newly formed rear springs on front.

    Remember, one coil turned the rear into the front with no change in ride height. Once the springs went on (and I took her around the block to settle the parts in) it was obvious the front end was now close to an inch lower, just like the man had said.

    I used a level again, and it turned out wonderfully - the car sits perfectly level on the cut/bent springs. I measured the gap between tire top and fender lip, and it turns out to be more like a 3/4 inch drop, not a full inch - but that is fine with me. The 3/4 inch drop I got as a result of this really makes an enormous cosmetic difference in the car's overall appearance: it looks much more agressive, and not as arse-heavy as it did with the stock setup.

    Took her for a nice drive and found that this mod has yielded all the things you'd expect from stiffer/lower front springs: Body roll in the corners is greatly reduced, the car has lost that mild floaty feeling you get on stock springs. Going into corners she feels much more sure-footed now. Understeer is not as big an issue as I might have thought at first. The stock X has a real tendency to spin out if pushed too hard into a corner, and we all can tell when we're "pushing it" - you get that feeling that the arse is about to let go on you - well that sensation is now largely diminished with these front springs. It behaves much more solid when pushed. I am sure the hazard of spinout is still there, but it seems the envelope has grown. Now when I push her to the point that would normally have given me that "little feeling" in the pit of my stomach, she responds firmly as though she is as solidly planted as ever.

    I am still sure, however, that there is a breaking point!! -it's just been pushed a little further out. Because of the changes, I just can't feel it coming anymore, which could be dangerous. I intend to proceed with caution until I get a feel for her new attitude.

    There are still many tests I want to do on this setup before I would personally recommend it to anyone, but I can say this: so far I love it!! The car's appearance has benefitted much from the slight drop up front, she behaves more predictably (so far) in corners, and the ride is much more sporting than before. Of course, that also means that I have discovered a whole new sense of the various pavement textures in my town! The ride is more harsh to be sure, but even at that it isn't bad. Well worth it to me so far!

    To me, being a relatively cheap dude, the best part of all is cost: the springs were free, the torch was $40 and the cutting wheel was $5. Not only that, but the torch & cutting wheel will certainly find many other uses in my workshop in the future, so with that in mind, the cost was virtually nil. On "bang for buck" this mod is proving hard to beat so far! -Mac.




    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->re spring shortening<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 15 1999, 9:19 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->two alternative methods for shortening springs.1]quick&dirty.park your car on aflat, level surface,measure from ground to bottom of front trailing arm mounts. subtract amount you wish to lower car, and cut blocks of wood this length.wrap a wet rag around the shock inside the spring near the lower spring seat.put blocks you cut earlier under trailing arm mounts, and heat the spring near the bottom.a fire extinguisher would probably be a good idea.you want the car to settle onto the blocks,[one side at at time] wthout the spring ever visibly glowing, and with the coils closing up evenly over about the last 2 turns.allow to cool slowly. you will roast the nylon '\"silencer",but i've done this and didn't have any spring problems for a couple of years.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot[/FONT]
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->re springs 2<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]December 15 1999, 9:32 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->method the secondput your spring in the oven,clamped to a little shorter than you want their installed hight to be. oven should be at 400 degrees,and your significant other should be out of the house for at least the day.this one i haven't tried,but it comes from the book "how to make your car handle" by fred puhn, hp books<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][​IMG] [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
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