Yves
True Classic
Yes absolutely no issue.
DIY - Heater Core replacement using 124 Core
- Thread starter fiatmonkey
- Start date
Yves
True Classic
For information at Auto Ricambi US they have two version of heater core for 124.
Heater Core Late 1972 to 1985 Sku: HE6-402 Thickness of 65mm
https://autoricambi.us/heater-core-late-1972-85/
Heater Core 1966 to Early 1972 Sku: HE6-410 Thickness of 45mm
https://autoricambi.us/heater-core-1966-to-early-1972/
Info: Original X19 heater core have thickness of ~51mm
The one I bought is the late 1972 to 1985 thickness of 65 mm.
For the version 1966 to 1972 the thickness is less then the original "X" core ... very interesting the only thing we must know is the length, width and inlet outlet if are useable for our car. We need someone willy to try when they will have a heater core issue.
Yves
Heater Core Late 1972 to 1985 Sku: HE6-402 Thickness of 65mm
https://autoricambi.us/heater-core-late-1972-85/
Heater Core 1966 to Early 1972 Sku: HE6-410 Thickness of 45mm
https://autoricambi.us/heater-core-1966-to-early-1972/
Info: Original X19 heater core have thickness of ~51mm
The one I bought is the late 1972 to 1985 thickness of 65 mm.
For the version 1966 to 1972 the thickness is less then the original "X" core ... very interesting the only thing we must know is the length, width and inlet outlet if are useable for our car. We need someone willy to try when they will have a heater core issue.
Yves
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
My X's have AC so I have not looked into the 124 core mod, therefore I am only posting this out of general interest.
Regarding the two versions of 124 cores, that "early" one seems it may avoid the heater box mods needed to clear the larger "late" one. I see there is a price difference between them on the referenced site, but not so much that it would be worth the ease of installation (assuming it is otherwise the same, as Yves said). Is the early version readily available from the common vendors, or is it more rare? A larger core could offer more heat, but with the tiny cabins on a X that really should not matter - unless you happen to live in a extremely frigid climate.
Vagone
Daily Driver
I am in the same boat, I just finished pulling my wiring harness then moved onto the HVAC box. I found the heater valve seized and the lever cable disconnected. I saw a kinked heater hose, then discovered that the reason it was kinked, was that the hose was rerouted back into the center console & joined to the return hose! I continued removing the HAVC box and discovered the AC evap. but NO HEATER CORE! It's gone.. completely.
I've checked MWB, Fiat Plus, Vick and Holland, Monte Hospital, but none have the A/C car heater cores, used or other.
So, I'll try the 45mm thinner old style 124 heater core. I suppose I could rip apart my '71 124 spider dash, to verify fitment, but I really don't want to dig into that now. I'll have to find the in & out coolant elbows and gaskets as well. Not too concerned about minor differences in thickness, that can be compensated with a poly noodle-tube gasket.
I'm hoping the other dimensions and coolant connections are the same?
Thanks for any info!!
Attachments
Last edited:
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I'm not too surprised at what you found, old cars like these often get that way.
To be clear, as I said I have a AC heater box so I'm not familiar with the mods required to fit the 124 heater core beyond what I've read on the forum (there are a couple of excellent write ups on doing it). So I do not know if the "early" or "late" 124 core is better to use. I was only speculating that the thinner one may be easier to do. Please do some research and verify what would work best for you before buying anything. Or at least don't blame me if you don't.
Vagone
Daily Driver
Well I discovered more info since I posted this question. I figured the Evap. care and the heater core were stacked, but no. So the "thinner" vs. "thicker" does not apply. The A/C Evap is installed horizontally, in place of the heater core on the later A/C cars. The heater core is then installed vertically, after the fan. I can see the port in & out locations on the HVAC box and the rectangular void where the core should be. I'll have to measure for dimensions and see if the 124 cores will fit. I'll give A-R a call and see if they have the total measurements and not just the thickness.I'm not too surprised at what you found, old cars like these often get that way.
To be clear, as I said I have a AC heater box so I'm not familiar with the mods required to fit the 124 heater core beyond what I've read on the forum (there are a couple of excellent write ups on doing it). So I do not know if the "early" or "late" 124 core is better to use. I was only speculating that the thinner one may be easier to do. Please do some research and verify what would work best for you before buying anything. Or at least don't blame me if you don't.
On a side note, I may need a replacement Evap core anyway, so I was wondering if @lookforjoe could chime in? Did you replace your evap core with a parallel flow version when you went to R134 or did you reuse the serpentine original? I've done an R-134 conversion on my Alfa in the past and was not impressed with the cooling. I'm replacing all the hoses with lined versions this time as the R12 hoses are permeable to R134 and the fittings leak anyway.
Since I'm in Central Florida, and I'd like to use the X year round, proper A/C is of paramount importance.
Only the newer cars get used in the 5 months of our "summer". We're on an inverted schedule here, where we park our classics in the summer and bring them out in the winter!
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I might have been confusing your box as a "non-AC" style when I was commenting about the 124 heater core fitment. That would have mislead what I meant about the thinner one fitting better - which would apply to the non-AC box only.
To my knowledge no one has found a suitable replacement heater core for the AC style box. However I'm not sure if anyone has really tried either. So it might be possible to modify the box to allow use a one of the 124 cores...no idea really. Definitely worth looking into.
I have a AC style box and a non-AC style box, but both are still in the cars. So I haven't looked closely at them side by side to see all the differences and design changes. At some point I want to pull out both boxes and do that. One of my intentions is to alter the AC box to eliminate the vacuum controls, and swap in the cable controls from the non-AC box. I'll also be rebuilding the box and see if the heat and AC cores need to be replaced.
As for the AC evaporator. When you speak of a "parallel flow vs serpentine" design, are you talking about the condenser rather than the evaporator? A parallel flow condenser is a definite improvement. I'm not sure there are such design options for the evaporator.
To my knowledge no one has found a suitable replacement heater core for the AC style box. However I'm not sure if anyone has really tried either. So it might be possible to modify the box to allow use a one of the 124 cores...no idea really. Definitely worth looking into.
I have a AC style box and a non-AC style box, but both are still in the cars. So I haven't looked closely at them side by side to see all the differences and design changes. At some point I want to pull out both boxes and do that. One of my intentions is to alter the AC box to eliminate the vacuum controls, and swap in the cable controls from the non-AC box. I'll also be rebuilding the box and see if the heat and AC cores need to be replaced.
As for the AC evaporator. When you speak of a "parallel flow vs serpentine" design, are you talking about the condenser rather than the evaporator? A parallel flow condenser is a definite improvement. I'm not sure there are such design options for the evaporator.
Vagone
Daily Driver
OK more info from what I found. The AR 124 heater cores are 9.75 in. x 7 in. (24.75cm x 17.8cm) according to the call I made today. Which is about what I measure as the evap. core on mine, located in the non-AC cars typical heater core position.
The A/C heater core is located in the bottom 2 of 3 sections of the HVAC box. I've drawn out where it should be and show the approximate location of the connection hoses. That core should be only about 12-13cm tall x 28cm wide max. including the connection tubes. (4.75-5.0 in. X 11 in.) So the 124 core is nowhere near that size. BUT, there are plenty of other potential options. I am searching around for a compatible size core from both the custom rod shop / retrofit A/C systems and just other vehicles. I have included a pic of one such core from Summit Racing.
Yes, more modern A/C system use a parallel evap core too, probably to make the most efficient thermal transfer in the smallest space. I have, (can't find today, I think it's in my storage warehouse about 30 miles away) an A/C evap. core from a 2008 Fiat Punto with bulkhead connections that is an aluminum parallel flow unit. I'll grab that and a pic when I get a chance. The heater core even has an electric heater in parallel. It was a diesel, so in cold climates I suppose that would help.
The A/C heater core is located in the bottom 2 of 3 sections of the HVAC box. I've drawn out where it should be and show the approximate location of the connection hoses. That core should be only about 12-13cm tall x 28cm wide max. including the connection tubes. (4.75-5.0 in. X 11 in.) So the 124 core is nowhere near that size. BUT, there are plenty of other potential options. I am searching around for a compatible size core from both the custom rod shop / retrofit A/C systems and just other vehicles. I have included a pic of one such core from Summit Racing.
Yes, more modern A/C system use a parallel evap core too, probably to make the most efficient thermal transfer in the smallest space. I have, (can't find today, I think it's in my storage warehouse about 30 miles away) an A/C evap. core from a 2008 Fiat Punto with bulkhead connections that is an aluminum parallel flow unit. I'll grab that and a pic when I get a chance. The heater core even has an electric heater in parallel. It was a diesel, so in cold climates I suppose that would help.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Great work!
After my last post I realized you were talking about the evap, not condenser - sorry. So that would be an improvement to replace the old evap with a parallel flow one - same as it is for the condenser. The problem is finding one that will fit. Just like the heater core issue, these are tiny spaces.
At what point would it be easier to replace the entire box with one from a more modern car - with better components?
After my last post I realized you were talking about the evap, not condenser - sorry. So that would be an improvement to replace the old evap with a parallel flow one - same as it is for the condenser. The problem is finding one that will fit. Just like the heater core issue, these are tiny spaces.
At what point would it be easier to replace the entire box with one from a more modern car - with better components?
xunonove
Daily Driver
Hi All - just FYI, I found another source for the heater core. https://www.spiderroadster.com/heating.htm has the part for an early 124 spider (45mm) for $98. (They also have the thicker ones for $89 but I didn't want to modify the box/lever. I also got a new fan, gaskets and heater control valve for a reasonable price. They all look identical to the broken ones in my early, non-AC car. Shipping was quick.
Quick question: does anyone have a spare metal "flap" for the top of the box? Mine is rusted solid to its support bar. I'll figure something out, but if anyone has an extra one please do let me know.
Quick question: does anyone have a spare metal "flap" for the top of the box? Mine is rusted solid to its support bar. I'll figure something out, but if anyone has an extra one please do let me know.
lookforjoe
True Classic
I have a spare AC HVAC heater core, if you can't find one elsewhere. Generic won't fit since the I/O are angled relative to the core, unless you are willing to hack up the box... I'd sell it for $85 + shipping if you're interested. Of course, you need new gaskets, which you can get from MWB. You have to save your I/O pipes, those don't come with the units
Mine in place when I first separated the case
lookforjoe
True Classic
Well I discovered more info since I posted this question. I figured the Evap. care and the heater core were stacked, but no. So the "thinner" vs. "thicker" does not apply. The A/C Evap is installed horizontally, in place of the heater core on the later A/C cars. The heater core is then installed vertically, after the fan. I can see the port in & out locations on the HVAC box and the rectangular void where the core should be. I'll have to measure for dimensions and see if the 124 cores will fit. I'll give A-R a call and see if they have the total measurements and not just the thickness.
On a side note, I may need a replacement Evap core anyway, so I was wondering if @lookforjoe could chime in? Did you replace your evap core with a parallel flow version when you went to R134 or did you reuse the serpentine original? I've done an R-134 conversion on my Alfa in the past and was not impressed with the cooling. I'm replacing all the hoses with lined versions this time as the R12 hoses are permeable to R134 and the fittings leak anyway.
Since I'm in Central Florida, and I'd like to use the X year round, proper A/C is of paramount importance.
Sorry -I didn't get a prompt from your post - I kept the stock core - I also did away with the R/drier & expansion valve - went to orifice tube/accumulator.
darwoodious
Darin Nelson
You can fix that. Hussein (@lookforjoe) described it earlier and that is either linked here or elsewhere.
This is the "fresh air" flapper that lifts up into the scuttle. It gets wet there and the flapper rusts to the bar holding it. Remove the flap with the bar (there are two bolts holding it in) then soak in penetrating oil for a few days. You should be able to move it back/forth. I used some heat on it too.
xunonove
Daily Driver
Thanks - I tried the heat trick but no luck. The bolts broke off when removing it so looks like I'll be welding again. I'll soak for a few days as suggested.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I must be confusing things, wasn't that the seller that recently posted on the forum saying he went out of business because we didn't buy enough from him and we are all a bunch of idiots?
xunonove
Daily Driver
Yikes!! Not sure if that's the case. I found it online and ordered online easily. I didn't indicate that it was for an X, just ordered the parts and he sent them right away...
xunonove
Daily Driver
Here's the thread @Dr.Jeff was talking about: https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-x1-9-parts.39887/#post-363423
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
That's the discussion I was thinking of. Someone in that thread said the original post was from "Spider Roadster", I don't know any details.
Please let us know what happens with your order. It will be good to know if the business is still up and running.
Vagone
Daily Driver
Thanks Hussein, (@lookforjoe) That's what I needed to see. I also found your other posts showing the "gutted" expansion valve and placing the orifice tube in the line where the old accumulator used to be in the frunk. Great idea... If you have a spare core for the heater (A/C style) sure I'll buy it. The hard lines thru the tunnel are OK, but the valve is shot, but I was thinking of putting a plastic generic version back at the source area, and put in a longer adjuster cable next the the accelerator cable, thru the tunnel. All new silicone or rubber hoses goign in anyway. ALSO side note, would you also be willing to sell your old '87-88 style guages, since you don't seem to be using them anymore? I'll be attempting to use the original style set with the K24 swap, I've been digging into tach converters and the cable drive & pulse converters that Dakota Digital makes. There is good info on the K20a.org forums about that. I used one of those pulse converters on my GTV6 when I swapped in an '89 Milano transaxle with a Jeager hall effect sensor to the speedo that used a gear driven pulse (contacts) unit in '84. I really like the larger numbers on the 87-88 and the Oil pressure in lieu of the volt meter on the left side. Post or Message me, plz.
Darrin, @darwoodious - yes thanks for the info, I had been thinking in parallel with that idea and already soaked the fresh air intake lid (that was seized in place) in a little tank of Evap-O Rust for 2 days, taking it out every 12 hours and brushing it to dig down to the steel. I have the before pics, I'll take some after pics. Worked great. I washed it afterward and then hit it with some Water Displacement formula 40
along that "tube hinge" to push out the water and lube it. Glides smoothly now. Again, terrible engineering, bare metal in an external area that obviously gets wet. Will probably coat the whole flap in POR15 and the tube hinge in waterproof marine grease. All the foam seal disintegrated, will be sourcing replacement material from McMaster Carr probably, unless there is good weatherproof automotive / marine grade closed cell foam elsewhere.Edit - @lookforjoe I may be confusing your old dash pic form your fantastic binnacle conversion (you've had a busy pandemic winter!) with this picture from @darwoodious from the oil pressure gauge thread. Or can the useless voltmeter gauge be converted to an oil press with a sender & icon modifications.... Anyway Seeking this style... I have my current 86 style and a 79 style dashes.with the clockwise tach, that came on the car. The PO must have changed it. Anbody need those let me know.
Last edited: