Early 128 1100 Sedan - Engine upgrade options

My apologies by correctly reading the first thread I answered my own question. Congrats on your new 128 Tom, You used to have a 128sl a few years ago.?Reading the post I thought you were putting a 1.3 motor in your Fiat 1100.
 
Back to the original question, does the 1.3 128 motor bolt up to the 1100 trans? If not what trans will you use?

As I replied earlier, yes, just use the original 1.1L flywheel/clutch assembly. One could also use a 1.1L Yugo trans (with 1.1L flywheel/clutch), or a 1.3L 128 trans (with 1.3L flywheel/clutch).

My white '72 128 Wagon had it's original 1.1L engine swapped out for a modified X1/9 1.3L. I ran that setup for a few years until it burned a valve & blew the headgasket, then I pulled the 1.3L out & put a modified NOS 1.1L back in. With the new 1.1L, I also swapped in a Yugo GV 1.1L trans for better highway cruising (taller final drive ratio; 3.76:1 instead of 4.42:1).
 
Yes, I meant 1.1L in a 128 as Jeff said, not an 1100 model (though I do own one of those also!).

I assume the X1/9 5 speed trans won't fit the 128 (or maybe it's opposite rotation). I have a lot of reading to do.. I did own a 128SL once years ago where I swapped out the springs/struts from an early X to lower the front, so at least I know about that proceedure.
 
Transmission isn’t transferable between the two as the actuation rod emerges from the front on an X and the rear on a 128.

Everything spins the right way as they just moved the whole engine and trans about 8 feet to the rear. Internals are very much the same
 
128 sedan has the tightest engine bay of all... 128 coupe and ritmo / strada are much more spacious with more room forward of the engine.

Why would anyone want to do an engine swap?

The chassis can only handle so much power (and it also fatigues quickly at high power levels and you get chassis cracking issues) and only so much can get put to the ground with a front drive car...it's very different to an X19 chassis which will easily handle double the factory power with no chassis or traction issues at all.

128 with 100hp at the crank is quite "nippy" as they weigh in at around 820kg from memory for the early two doors...so about 100kg less weight than an x19 straight up.

SteveC
 
OK, if I were to get an 1.5 X1/9 donor car (say, a 1979 so it has a carb), what parts would need to be swapped over to get it into the 128? Based on what I am reading, I would need the following:

1.5 X motor to early 128 sedan (1300cc or 1100cc):

Parts from the 128 motor to be added to the 1.5 engine:
  • The Clutch & Flywheel from the 1300
  • Starter from the 1300
  • The Oil Pan (?)
Additional work:
  • Notch out the bell housing (due to later design of 1.5 and later 1.3 engine)
  • Exhaust manifold modification (because the 1.5 head sits higher than the 1.3)
  • Throttle linkage modification (?)
Can the 1.5 alternator and brackets work? Motor mounts the same? What did I miss? (I will edit this post to add info)
 
Hi Tom. Long ago I had a 1972 128 - yup 1116cc. Fond memories of that car.......

I am certainly no expert on the matter, but.....

Some things to keep in the back of your head if you are thinking of using X1/9 bits:

Firstly....no you cannot use any X1/9 tranny. As others have said, they are basically the same - BUT - the shift linkage comes out the BACK of an 128/Strada/Yugo tranny. On an X1/9 tranny the shift linkage comes out the FRONT of the tranny casing.

An important thing to always remember is that on 128/Strada/Yugo, the engine is mounted at a 20 degree forward tilt. On all X1/9s, the engine is mounted at only a 12 degree tilt. Whatever engine you install into your 128 will have to retain the 20 degree angle. This affects a few things if using an X1/9 sourced engine :

Firstly, thus an X1/9 oil pan would then sit not flat on the bottom. It has been done, but is not right. Easy solution is to just swap over the 128/strada/Yugo oil pan. You MUST then also use the oil pump pickup tube that goes with the pan you are installing. The oil pumps were all the same - the pickup tube is a separate piece that just bolts onto the oil pump.

Secondly, although the intake manifolds look quite similar between X1/9 and 128/Strada/Yugo.....in fact they are quite different due to the 20 degree/12 degree tilt difference. So...an X1/9 intake manifold will result in the carb/air cleaner no longer sitting horizontal in your 128. Maybe no big deal but surely best to source a 128/Strada/Yugo intake manifold. You really cant use your existing 128 1116cc intake manifold as it would have come with a single barrel carb. I think all 128s after '74 ( when they changed to 1290cc) and all Yugos ( ? ) and Strada came with a 2 barrel carb - which you would surely want....

Your existing 128 engine mounts should work okay with any engine. Of course the lower mount is on the tranny, so no effect there. The side engine mount is the same I think on all X1/9/128/Yugo. Not sure about Strada. Use the 128 top dogbone mount.

All the 1116/1290/1500 blocks were basically the same. The only big difference is with the 1500 blocks - they were about 1/2" taller at the top of the block due to the longer stroke. The extension was above where the side engine mount bolts on so that is okay. But that does mean that whole head will now sit 1/2" taller in the car. So watch out for hood clearance, rad hoses not quite lining up, throttle linkages, front exhaust pipes too short, dog bone not quite right, stuff like that....

I'm curious about your other engine block. If it is marked 138 it is most likely a 1500 if it came from a US market X1/9 or Strada ?? Easy to tell - just run a tape measure from where the pan bolts on to where the head bolts on, on both your engines. If same as the 1116 measurement - it would be most likely a 1290. If 1/2" or so longer then it would be a 1500.

Hope this helps. Good luck. Doug
 
The alternator off the 1500 will work but some minor wiring changes since it has a built in regulator. Throttle linkage requires no change. When I put 1500s into 1300 128s, the 128 exhaust worked fine with no mods needed.
 
Hi Tom. Long ago I had a 1972 128 - yup 1116cc. Fond memories of that car.......

I am certainly no expert on the matter, but.....

Some things to keep in the back of your head if you are thinking of using X1/9 bits:

Firstly....no you cannot use any X1/9 tranny. As others have said, they are basically the same - BUT - the shift linkage comes out the BACK of an 128/Strada/Yugo tranny. On an X1/9 tranny the shift linkage comes out the FRONT of the tranny casing.

An important thing to always remember is that on 128/Strada/Yugo, the engine is mounted at a 20 degree forward tilt. On all X1/9s, the engine is mounted at only a 12 degree tilt. Whatever engine you install into your 128 will have to retain the 20 degree angle. This affects a few things if using an X1/9 sourced engine :

Firstly, thus an X1/9 oil pan would then sit not flat on the bottom. It has been done, but is not right. Easy solution is to just swap over the 128/strada/Yugo oil pan. You MUST then also use the oil pump pickup tube that goes with the pan you are installing. The oil pumps were all the same - the pickup tube is a separate piece that just bolts onto the oil pump.

Secondly, although the intake manifolds look quite similar between X1/9 and 128/Strada/Yugo.....in fact they are quite different due to the 20 degree/12 degree tilt difference. So...an X1/9 intake manifold will result in the carb/air cleaner no longer sitting horizontal in your 128. Maybe no big deal but surely best to source a 128/Strada/Yugo intake manifold. You really cant use your existing 128 1116cc intake manifold as it would have come with a single barrel carb. I think all 128s after '74 ( when they changed to 1290cc) and all Yugos ( ? ) and Strada came with a 2 barrel carb - which you would surely want....

Your existing 128 engine mounts should work okay with any engine. Of course the lower mount is on the tranny, so no effect there. The side engine mount is the same I think on all X1/9/128/Yugo. Not sure about Strada. Use the 128 top dogbone mount.

All the 1116/1290/1500 blocks were basically the same. The only big difference is with the 1500 blocks - they were about 1/2" taller at the top of the block due to the longer stroke. The extension was above where the side engine mount bolts on so that is okay. But that does mean that whole head will now sit 1/2" taller in the car. So watch out for hood clearance, rad hoses not quite lining up, throttle linkages, front exhaust pipes too short, dog bone not quite right, stuff like that....

I'm curious about your other engine block. If it is marked 138 it is most likely a 1500 if it came from a US market X1/9 or Strada ?? Easy to tell - just run a tape measure from where the pan bolts on to where the head bolts on, on both your engines. If same as the 1116 measurement - it would be most likely a 1290. If 1/2" or so longer then it would be a 1500.

Hope this helps. Good luck. Doug

Not really important here, but in a case of "why did they do that" the early 128 SL came with the 1290 and a single barrel carb. (And I think the euro cam).
 
The side engine mount is the same I think on all X1/9/128/Yugo. Not sure about Strada.

The 128 1.1L side mount is different than the later model 128-X1/9 mounts; it looks the same, but the thickness/offset is different due to the 1.1L block not using a water jacket plate on the front like the 1.3L/1.5L have (Matt from MWB had a nice write-up about this here some time ago). So if replacing a 1.1L engine with a 1.5L in a 128, use the 1.5L side mount.

Oh, & the Strada side mount is very different than on 128-X1/9, instead being similar to the Yugo side mount.

All the 1116/1290/1500 blocks were basically the same. The only big difference is with the 1500 blocks - they were about 1/2" taller at the top of the block due to the longer stroke.

That & the size/spacing of the 1.1L's 80mm bore vs. the 86.xmm bore of the 1.3/1.5 blocks (& no, a 1.1L will not bore out to 86.x). The 1.1L also lacks the water jacket cover plate(s) as on the 1.3L/1.5L blocks.
 
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