Electric X1/9 Project - $4900 OBO

Matt Brannon - Midwest Bayless

Matt Brannon - Midwest Bayless

Mad.Matt
Hey everyone,

A while back we showed photo of an electric X19 conversion we were doing on behalf of a client. Life changes happened, and the project was put on the back burner for a bit, and now he is looking to move the project as it sits to a new enthusiast.

It's a rust-free 85, and includes a Warp 9 motor, Zilla 1KV controller, 96V compressor for AC, heat exchangers, break-out boxes etc... The pix below were taken in late fall. It is in a basic primer finish.

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Full details are here:

1985-X19-ELECTRIC

This would be a great candidate for a K20 conversion chassis if you weren't into the electric side of things, and it already has the K20 lower wishbone and tran support bracket.

The asking price for the car is less than the electric equipment itself new.

I have no dog in the hunt, just trying to help the motivated owner find it a good home. It has a clear title.

Feel free to contact me directly by email and I'll put you in touch with the seller/owner.

-M
 
Matt, You might want to list this in DIYelectric car forum. For anyone interested this is a pretty good deal money wise. The zilla controller is over $2K and another $2K for the motor. Was this car originally set up for a k20? I ask because of the cut outs in the fame. My motor and trans slipped into the original slot with no modifications.
 
Dragonsgate,

I originally asked Matt to set it up similarly to how he builds the K20 kit. We installed an Acura transmission in order to have a stronger transmission with a better track record (some -not all- X1/9 EV folks stripped the Fiat transmission, and I felt the Zilla / Warp 9 power combination was a little more than I was comfortable putting through it. The current setup also allow for the electric a/c compressor. I'm very happy with Matt's work.
 
dustin said:
Dragonsgate,

I originally asked Matt to set it up similarly to how he builds the K20 kit. We installed an Acura transmission in order to have a stronger transmission with a better track record (some -not all- X1/9 EV folks stripped the Fiat transmission, and I felt the Zilla / Warp 9 power combination was a little more than I was comfortable putting through it. The current setup also allow for the electric a/c compressor. I'm very happy with Matt's work.
Click to expand...
After I ask about the cut outs I looked closer and realized that was not a Fiat trans. I have thought about going a thousand amps and the fiat trans is a concern. I am running a ADC 9inch at 500 amps and that scoots my X along pretty good. It is a blast to drive. At 100hp and 180lbs torque the stock 5speed has held up well. I take it the zilla is 1200 amps? At that and a nominal 144volts you would have right at 200hp and about 400lbs torque. Anyone interested in messing with an electric, this sounds like a good start with a bit of $avings. What does the interior look like?
 
Dragonsgate,

The interior is nothing special. It needs new seats. It is an 86, so it has a newer style dark red interior. It also has a sunroof built into the targa top.

I'm offering it for a lot less money than what I have invested, but of course someone will have to paint it and reupholster the seats. All the parts, including the expensive a/c compressor is there except the dc/dc converter and a charger. The buyer will have to wire it, but I even have norloc bolts for all the batteries. I simply don't have the time or money to finish it due to family expenses that happened after I started the project. It comes with a Warp 9 motor, motor adapter, mounts, 1k HV Zilla controller, electric heaters, the a/c compressor, HV relays, etc.

I am also providing a lot of misc X1/9 parts I purchased for it; an electric lock kit, a relay box set up with all the relays that X1/9 owners have to install for wipers, lights, etc., new steering wheel, upgraded lights, EV LED instruments for an upgraded cluster.
 
dustin said:
Dragonsgate,

The interior is nothing special. It needs new seats. It is an 86, so it has a newer style dark red interior. It also has a sunroof built into the targa top.

I'm offering it for a lot less money than what I have invested, but of course someone will have to paint it and reupholster the seats. All the parts, including the expensive a/c compressor is there except the dc/dc converter and a charger. The buyer will have to wire it, but I even have norloc bolts for all the batteries. I simply don't have the time or money to finish it due to family expenses that happened after I started the project. It comes with a Warp 9 motor, motor adapter, mounts, 1k HV Zilla controller, electric heaters, the a/c compressor, HV relays, etc.

I am also providing a lot of misc X1/9 parts I purchased for it; an electric lock kit, a relay box set up with all the relays that X1/9 owners have to install for wipers, lights, etc., new steering wheel, upgraded lights, EV LED instruments for an upgraded cluster.
Click to expand...

"I even have norloc bolts for all the batteries." You have batteries? If so what kind?
 
What would the range on a car like this be?

For me it would have to be able to do 120 miles plus partially in hilly terrain to be workable.
 
bpimm said:
What would the range on a car like this be?

For me it would have to be able to do 120 miles plus partially in hilly terrain to be workable.
Click to expand...

That would all depend on how much battery you are willing to buy and find space for (allowing for driving style also).
 
Splittime,

It definitely depends on your battery selection. I had originally planned 54 lifepo 180amp batteries. That would allow me to travel roughly 80 miles a day with either heat or a/c. That gave me a level of comfort in my daily commute, and assumed no recharge location at work. If you want buy conventional lead acid batteries or gel, or found some ni-cad ones, you're range is going to be different. With lead acid batteries, it would still make a great city commuter car.

Because it's set up with an Acura transmission, I think it's 50/50 someone buys it to finish a k20 conversion, and sells the EV parts.
 
dustin said:
Splittime,

It definitely depends on your battery selection. I had originally planned 54 lifepo 180amp batteries. That would allow me to travel roughly 80 miles a day with either heat or a/c. That gave me a level of comfort in my daily commute, and assumed no recharge location at work. If you want buy conventional lead acid batteries or gel, or found some ni-cad ones, you're range is going to be different. With lead acid batteries, it would still make a great city commuter car.

Because it's set up with an Acura transmission, I think it's 50/50 someone buys it to finish a k20 conversion, and sells the EV parts.
Click to expand...

Lead is doable but not the best way to go anymore. With eighteen 170 amp Trojan 8 volt batteries I comfortably got 30 miles per charge at about 70% discharge. With Lithium 100 amp batts it is right at 40 miles per charge. You are looking at 1134 pounds of lead Vs about 350 pounds with lithium. If I was in the market for an electric car project and know what I know now compared to 16 years ago I would grab this car. The K/20 idea sounds best. I am surprised someone hasn't picked up this car on the DIY electric car forum. The motor sells for $2000 new and the Zilla controller is a coveted item going for $2K or more used. I hope someone picks it up soon because if it is still there in the spring I am not looking forward to the possibility of dragging my car carrier fourteen hundred miles round trip to go get it and bring it back.
 
I'm out... I think...

I've been following this with interest and some amount of thinking about it. As someone who puts on a lot of miles with a ~95 mile/day commute, I look for ways to be more efficient. However, the weight and cost of sufficient batteries to enable my commute, puts the cost of the car to about the same as a new 500e for me. (which is quite close on whether it would work or not, its rated at 87 miles, most people report getting close to 100). There are chargers at my work, but I'm not sure if I'd always get a spot?
I did a google search for the batteries that dustin mentions, so I'll post the results in case it helps someone:
Each 180 amp cell weighs about 12.5 pounds and costs about $250. At 54 cells, that equates to 675 pounds which I think is OK given the planed placement areas, the fact that the engine and gas weight has been removed and radiator I presume, unless the batteries need cooling? It'll be a bit heavier, but not enough to make it a sluggish pig in the corners. The cost for 54 batteries would be $13,500, plus the cost of the car and finishing the conversion, painting it, etc.
For me, I think I would go with something more like 65-70 batteries, which would mean 810-875 pounds of batteries and $16,250-$17,500 in battery cost.
On the other hand, the batteries are supposed to have a life of 3000 cycles, which even with my commute is about an 11 year lifespan. So amortize $17,000 in batteries over 11 years and its just over $1500/year.

(to compare - cost of gas for me - 264 days/year commuting = 25,000 miles/year * 32mpg = 780 gallons * $4/gal, keeping in mind a long horizon and the high likelihood that gas prices will go back up, = $3120/year).
 
Brett said:
I've been following this with interest and some amount of thinking about it. As someone who puts on a lot of miles with a ~95 mile/day commute, I look for ways to be more efficient. However, the weight and cost of sufficient batteries to enable my commute, puts the cost of the car to about the same as a new 500e for me. (which is quite close on whether it would work or not, its rated at 87 miles, most people report getting close to 100). There are chargers at my work, but I'm not sure if I'd always get a spot?
I did a google search for the batteries that dustin mentions, so I'll post the results in case it helps someone:
Each 180 amp cell weighs about 12.5 pounds and costs about $250. At 54 cells, that equates to 675 pounds which I think is OK given the planed placement areas, the fact that the engine and gas weight has been removed and radiator I presume, unless the batteries need cooling? It'll be a bit heavier, but not enough to make it a sluggish pig in the corners. The cost for 54 batteries would be $13,500, plus the cost of the car and finishing the conversion, painting it, etc.
For me, I think I would go with something more like 65-70 batteries, which would mean 810-875 pounds of batteries and $16,250-$17,500 in battery cost.
On the other hand, the batteries are supposed to have a life of 3000 cycles, which even with my commute is about an 11 year lifespan. So amortize $17,000 in batteries over 11 years and its just over $1500/year.

(to compare - cost of gas for me - 264 days/year commuting = 25,000 miles/year * 32mpg = 780 gallons * $4/gal, keeping in mind a long horizon and the high likelihood that gas prices will go back up, = $3120/year).
Click to expand...

Dustin's car is a really good start for anyone wanting to do an electric conversion. I did my first conversion in Nov. 1999 and didn't know a lot about electric at the time. The first couple of years I was fixing things that broke (under estimated the power of an electric motor) or that could be done different for the better. If you are looking for a reliable commuter of any distance I recommend a Leaf or Fiat electric. If you are looking for a fun project that will ruin you for gas engines then convert a car to electric.
 
Question on range calculations

So, on a whim and in a tire-kicking mood, I drove a 500e last night. Fun little car, loved how quiet it is.
Doing a bit more research I found out the battery pack is 24kWh, and its range is 87 miles (more or less depending on several factors, but...that's its EPA range at least). I also looked at the door sticker and the 500e weighs about 3700 lbs.
There is a thread over on Fiat500Forums about miles per kWh:
http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?17944-WHAT-S-YOUR-LIFETIME-Miles-kWh

Looking at the basic shape of the 500 and comparing the X-1/9 I would think the X would require less energy to move. Its lighter and more aerodynamic by looks anyway.

The batteries discussed above are listed at a nominal 3.2V, that means that at 180A, they generate .576kW of power. Now this is where I get lost, a kW is a measure of power and is NOT the same as a kWh, which is a measure of energy. But I don't know how to convert that. (i.e. what is the assumed time?) If I *assumed* (and we all know what that means) that's kW to kWh is 1:1, than to have the same energy as a 500e, you would only need about 45 180amp batteries and have almost 26kW (kWh??) compared to the 500e's 24kWh.
If the X is lighter and more aero, wouldn't you have even greater range compared to the 500e?

FWIW, This page:
http://www.ev-propulsion.com/EV-calculations.html
seems to say that 45 200Ah batteries would get 88 miles of range, using a theoretical Miata drawing 90amps at 50mph.
 
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intriguing
the house we're hoping to buy is all set up with a car charger in the garage, the guy has a Volt. I'd love an electric X to commute in. Would be fine for me, my commute seldom exceeds 50 miles in a day.
 
Brett said:
The batteries discussed above are listed at a nominal 3.2V, that means that at 180A, they generate .576kW of power. Now this is where I get lost, a kW is a measure of power and is NOT the same as a kWh, which is a measure of energy. But I don't know how to convert that. (i.e. what is the assumed time?) If I *assumed* (and we all know what that means) that's kW to kWh is 1:1, than to have the same energy as a 500e, you would only need about 45 180amp batteries and have almost 26kW (kWh??) compared to the 500e's 24kWh.
Click to expand...

The problem is in casually referring to the batteries as "180 amp batteries"; they are actually 180 Ah (amp hour) batteries. If the voltage is 3.2V the energy storage would be 180 Ah x 3.2 V = 576 Wh, or 0.576 kWh.
 
Brett said:
Looking at the basic shape of the 500 and comparing the X-1/9 I would think the X would require less energy to move. Its lighter and more aerodynamic by looks anyway.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about that. The frontal area of the X1/9 is certainly smaller than that of the 500e, but the coefficient of drag for the X1/9 is for sure much higher.
 
BACK UP FOR SALE!

Hi all,

After many years of sitting on this project (wow ... 9 years!), waiting for retirement ... retirement finally arrived but my focus is now elsewhere with other cars getting my limited attention.

It's time to pass this project onto someone who may actually do something with it, whether that be finish the electric or go K20.

Available in Sarasota FL area. Generally it's in the same condition and comes with the same plethora of parts as described by Matt below.

$3,900 OBO. Contact me for details or questions. John
 
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