Looking for recommendations on stock-ish electronic ignition setups from those who have experience, with an eye for my F.I. conversion if that matters in terms of block vs. cam mount.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Electronic ignition suggestions...
- Thread starter budgetzagato
- Start date
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Depends which FI setup you are going with...
and which block you have. If you have the stock 1.8l block and are using the Lancia FI setup, there is no reason the distributor can't stay where it is (although you will have to switch it out for an electronic one).
If you are using a 2.0l block, the intake-cam-mounted distributor may contact the hood (but if it is not contacting now, then you should not have a problem).
If you use the Fiat FI system, the intake plenum and throttle body will sit over the intake side cam and you will need to switch to an exhaust-side distributor. I don't know if a block-mounted distributor would be possible/pracctical with FI. Even on a carbed car it would be buried underneath the intake manifold, carb and alternator and not readily accessible.
A cam-end-mount distributor would be another possibility, but harder to find.
I moved the dizzy to the exhaust side (lots of TC cars came stock this way, you may have to change the gear at the bottom of the dizzy to get it to spin the right way), and sourced an electronic ignition setup from a Spider (124? not sure what the right name for those cars are).
I can take pics or look for part numbers if you need. I also have some FI conversion parts left-over I think... Lancia manifold and some other bits. Let me know if you need anything.
Pete
and which block you have. If you have the stock 1.8l block and are using the Lancia FI setup, there is no reason the distributor can't stay where it is (although you will have to switch it out for an electronic one).
If you are using a 2.0l block, the intake-cam-mounted distributor may contact the hood (but if it is not contacting now, then you should not have a problem).
If you use the Fiat FI system, the intake plenum and throttle body will sit over the intake side cam and you will need to switch to an exhaust-side distributor. I don't know if a block-mounted distributor would be possible/pracctical with FI. Even on a carbed car it would be buried underneath the intake manifold, carb and alternator and not readily accessible.
A cam-end-mount distributor would be another possibility, but harder to find.
I moved the dizzy to the exhaust side (lots of TC cars came stock this way, you may have to change the gear at the bottom of the dizzy to get it to spin the right way), and sourced an electronic ignition setup from a Spider (124? not sure what the right name for those cars are).
I can take pics or look for part numbers if you need. I also have some FI conversion parts left-over I think... Lancia manifold and some other bits. Let me know if you need anything.
Pete
Thanks Pete...
Pete, I'm interested in knowing more about what F.I. parts you have to sell. I have a pump, AAV, and a line on set of injectors & ECU.
What I definitely need is a harness& dual relay, fuel rail, intake manifold, throttle body, main hose, AFM, and possibly a stock carb'd airbox. Also still looking for a driver's side seatbelt and charcoal canister and related bits.
Pete, I'm interested in knowing more about what F.I. parts you have to sell. I have a pump, AAV, and a line on set of injectors & ECU.
What I definitely need is a harness& dual relay, fuel rail, intake manifold, throttle body, main hose, AFM, and possibly a stock carb'd airbox. Also still looking for a driver's side seatbelt and charcoal canister and related bits.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Can't help with the harness and relay...
But I have a Lancia manifold with fuel rail and some fairly rotted hoses. I'll inventory what I have tomorrow and post some pics.
The advantage of the Lancia manifold is that your dizzy can stay where it is, and the throttle body bolts on (and can therefore be upgraded if desired).
The disadvantage is, I am told it will not clear the shift linkage without modifications. As I went the Fiat FI route, I am not 100% sure that is accurate, or if it is accurate, what those modifications would have to be.
Pete
But I have a Lancia manifold with fuel rail and some fairly rotted hoses. I'll inventory what I have tomorrow and post some pics.
The advantage of the Lancia manifold is that your dizzy can stay where it is, and the throttle body bolts on (and can therefore be upgraded if desired).
The disadvantage is, I am told it will not clear the shift linkage without modifications. As I went the Fiat FI route, I am not 100% sure that is accurate, or if it is accurate, what those modifications would have to be.
Pete
Mark
FIATFREAK
No offense to Pete, but some of that info is not exactly correct:
<Depends which FI setup you are going with...and which block you have. If you have the stock 1.8l block and are using the Lancia FI setup, there is no reason the distributor can't stay where it is (although you will have to switch it out for an electronic one). If you are using a 2.0l block, the intake-cam-mounted distributor may contact the hood (but if it is not contacting now, then you should not have a problem).>
The block doesn't matter. All Montes had 2.0 with the intake cam mounted distributor. The Beta FI fuel rail will conflict with the distributor.
Ideally, you want to use the Beta FI manifold and exhaust end-of-cam distributor from an '81-'82 Beta.
Second choice would be the Beta FI manifold with a Fiat FI distributor modified for the Scorpion intake cam location. To do this, you use the Fiat distributor with the Scorpion's gear. This requires modifications to the fuel rail and is a tight fit.
Third choice is to use a Fiat FI manifold with the Beta exhaust end-of-cam distributor.
Fourth choice would be the Fiat FI manifold and Fiat distributor on the exhaust cam. This requires using a carbed Beta cam box or modifying the Fiat cam box because the oil drain ports are different due to the Beta and Scorpion's 20 degree engine tilt. Don't plan on carrying your spare tire because it won't fit with this option.
The Beta manifold will require modifying the vertical shift linkage. I wrote an article for the American Lancia Club's news letter about 20 years ago that detailed all the necessary modifications.
<Depends which FI setup you are going with...and which block you have. If you have the stock 1.8l block and are using the Lancia FI setup, there is no reason the distributor can't stay where it is (although you will have to switch it out for an electronic one). If you are using a 2.0l block, the intake-cam-mounted distributor may contact the hood (but if it is not contacting now, then you should not have a problem).>
The block doesn't matter. All Montes had 2.0 with the intake cam mounted distributor. The Beta FI fuel rail will conflict with the distributor.
Ideally, you want to use the Beta FI manifold and exhaust end-of-cam distributor from an '81-'82 Beta.
Second choice would be the Beta FI manifold with a Fiat FI distributor modified for the Scorpion intake cam location. To do this, you use the Fiat distributor with the Scorpion's gear. This requires modifications to the fuel rail and is a tight fit.
Third choice is to use a Fiat FI manifold with the Beta exhaust end-of-cam distributor.
Fourth choice would be the Fiat FI manifold and Fiat distributor on the exhaust cam. This requires using a carbed Beta cam box or modifying the Fiat cam box because the oil drain ports are different due to the Beta and Scorpion's 20 degree engine tilt. Don't plan on carrying your spare tire because it won't fit with this option.
The Beta manifold will require modifying the vertical shift linkage. I wrote an article for the American Lancia Club's news letter about 20 years ago that detailed all the necessary modifications.
Last edited:
Saved as a PDF
Saved as a PDF, thanks. I'll be sure to study up on everything I can get my hands on.
Saved as a PDF, thanks. I'll be sure to study up on everything I can get my hands on.
Thanks Pete...
Looking forward to seeing what you have to offer. My plan is to do as Mark suggests and get everything ready for the swap before hand to keep it drivable.
Looking forward to seeing what you have to offer. My plan is to do as Mark suggests and get everything ready for the swap before hand to keep it drivable.
roadbox
True Classic
Hey Greg,
I can't really tell you how this can work with an FI set-up, Mark certainly has more experience, but I have used the stock Fiat-Marelli electronic ignition in my Scorp with great success. The conversion is so easy, that you could install it in an afternoon as a temporary measure until you have your FI conversion all figured out. Simply remove the "right handed" drive gear from the bottom of your electronic dizzy sourced from an FI Fiat Spider or Brava and replace it with the "left handed" drive gear from the stock Scorpion points dizzy. The rolled pin can be some work to get out ...but hey, it's been in there for thirty years! Then it plugs right into the intake cam position. Honestly, the hardest part is figuring out a convenient mounting location for the coil/control unit. If you can source the coil and control unit from an FI Beta, they will mount in more stock-like locations. You could also source a compact dry coil as I did.
Here's what it looks like in my Scorp's engine compartment:
Hope that helps.
John O.
I can't really tell you how this can work with an FI set-up, Mark certainly has more experience, but I have used the stock Fiat-Marelli electronic ignition in my Scorp with great success. The conversion is so easy, that you could install it in an afternoon as a temporary measure until you have your FI conversion all figured out. Simply remove the "right handed" drive gear from the bottom of your electronic dizzy sourced from an FI Fiat Spider or Brava and replace it with the "left handed" drive gear from the stock Scorpion points dizzy. The rolled pin can be some work to get out ...but hey, it's been in there for thirty years! Then it plugs right into the intake cam position. Honestly, the hardest part is figuring out a convenient mounting location for the coil/control unit. If you can source the coil and control unit from an FI Beta, they will mount in more stock-like locations. You could also source a compact dry coil as I did.
Here's what it looks like in my Scorp's engine compartment:
Hope that helps.
John O.
Odd...
My distributor's at the other end of the intake side, down lower. I have no idea what it's supposed to be like. :huh:
I think I'll see if it still fits when I get the F.I. stuff mocked up and go from there. I do like the idea of using Beta E.I. stuff if possible, just to be cool.
My distributor's at the other end of the intake side, down lower. I have no idea what it's supposed to be like. :huh:
I think I'll see if it still fits when I get the F.I. stuff mocked up and go from there. I do like the idea of using Beta E.I. stuff if possible, just to be cool.
kmead
Old enough to know better
You could perhaps find out if you could use the breakerless system Mark Allison sells:
http://www.allisonsautomotive.com/products.html#electrical
It would be interesting to see if the block mounted one would fit under the alternator so you could use nice clean cam covers.
He also has a nice header for the Scorpion.
http://www.allisonsautomotive.com/products.html#electrical
It would be interesting to see if the block mounted one would fit under the alternator so you could use nice clean cam covers.
He also has a nice header for the Scorpion.
roadbox
True Classic
Hmmmm.... Well, except for the dry coil, mine essentially looks stock. How about a picture?
John O.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Greg, here's what I've got laying around...
I'm not even sure what some of this stuff is, or if it's related to FI conversion. But it was all in the same box of stuff after my FI conversion so I assume it's related somehow.
I did not do my own FI conversion, so as Mark has shown, there are better experts out there than I.
Beta manifold, throttle body, TPS:
Fuel rail and regulator:
Intake hose that goes to throttle body:
Note that it does have a crack where one of the hoses attach, look where the smaller hose connects just before the larger hose does the 90 degree bend:
Cam boxes, one no dizzy, one with dizzy "port".
Another cam box with opposite dizzy port:
Wierd cam mount dizzy, condition unknown, origin unknown. Someone tell me what this thing is:
Mystery part #1. What is this thing?
Mystery part #2. What is this thing?
Assorted housings.
Dizzy. Is this SOHC or DOHC? I think it may be SOHC.
Electronic ignition from X1/9. If you are handy with electronics maybe there is enough other parts here for an electronic conversion.
I think that's about it for FI and EI stuff. Let me know if you are interested in any of this.
Pete
I'm not even sure what some of this stuff is, or if it's related to FI conversion. But it was all in the same box of stuff after my FI conversion so I assume it's related somehow.
I did not do my own FI conversion, so as Mark has shown, there are better experts out there than I.
Beta manifold, throttle body, TPS:
Fuel rail and regulator:
Intake hose that goes to throttle body:
Note that it does have a crack where one of the hoses attach, look where the smaller hose connects just before the larger hose does the 90 degree bend:
Cam boxes, one no dizzy, one with dizzy "port".
Another cam box with opposite dizzy port:
Wierd cam mount dizzy, condition unknown, origin unknown. Someone tell me what this thing is:
Mystery part #1. What is this thing?
Mystery part #2. What is this thing?
Assorted housings.
Dizzy. Is this SOHC or DOHC? I think it may be SOHC.
Electronic ignition from X1/9. If you are handy with electronics maybe there is enough other parts here for an electronic conversion.
I think that's about it for FI and EI stuff. Let me know if you are interested in any of this.
Pete
Hey Pete...
I'm definitely interested in the manifold, fuel rail, main air hose. Don't think I need the cam covers but don't toss 'em yet.
Mystery part #1 is A/C idle-up valve.
Mystery part #2 is a one-way fuel/vapor valve, usually used on carbed models as a roll-over fuel shutoff.
Is the thermostat good? I might want that too. Mine seems to run cold.
I'm definitely interested in the manifold, fuel rail, main air hose. Don't think I need the cam covers but don't toss 'em yet.
Mystery part #1 is A/C idle-up valve.
Mystery part #2 is a one-way fuel/vapor valve, usually used on carbed models as a roll-over fuel shutoff.
Is the thermostat good? I might want that too. Mine seems to run cold.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
I doubt I'll toss anything...
You never know when someone will need it.
As far as I know, the thermostat is good. I'll chuck the requested items in a big box and get them out to you.
Pete
You never know when someone will need it.
As far as I know, the thermostat is good. I'll chuck the requested items in a big box and get them out to you.
Pete
Mark
FIATFREAK
That throttle bracket on the left is what hits the Scorpion firewall and has to be modified
The top box looks like Fiat 124 exhaust. The bottom one looks like a Beta intake. The covers look like both are Scorpion, but mounted backwards.
Scorpion intake cam box
This is the preferred distributor for Scorpion fuel injection. Needs to be used with the correct cam and cam box.
The top box looks like Fiat 124 exhaust. The bottom one looks like a Beta intake. The covers look like both are Scorpion, but mounted backwards.
Scorpion intake cam box
This is the preferred distributor for Scorpion fuel injection. Needs to be used with the correct cam and cam box.
If you want it good and simple
The simplest way to do your ignition is to use this:
http://www.allisonsautomotive.com/products.html#electrical
The stock dizzy is easy to convert to electronic as well. I have a Crane system and it works flawlessly.
Warren
The simplest way to do your ignition is to use this:
http://www.allisonsautomotive.com/products.html#electrical
The stock dizzy is easy to convert to electronic as well. I have a Crane system and it works flawlessly.
Warren
I have some hoses for you
Hi Greg,
After seeing Pete's photos, I went out in the shop and found the same hose he shows. I have the Beta throttle body to MAF hose and it is not cracked. I also have a 90 degree hose that I think goes from the MAF to the air cleaner.
Then I pulled out two more hoses for you. I have some Fiat fuel injection pieces also. One I think is the hose that goes from the Fiat throttle body to the MAF, and also another hose that goes from the MAF to the air cleaner.
I'll go out this afternoon and look again for any twin cam stuff I can find, and put in a box for you.
Wayne
Hi Greg,
After seeing Pete's photos, I went out in the shop and found the same hose he shows. I have the Beta throttle body to MAF hose and it is not cracked. I also have a 90 degree hose that I think goes from the MAF to the air cleaner.
Then I pulled out two more hoses for you. I have some Fiat fuel injection pieces also. One I think is the hose that goes from the Fiat throttle body to the MAF, and also another hose that goes from the MAF to the air cleaner.
I'll go out this afternoon and look again for any twin cam stuff I can find, and put in a box for you.
Wayne
Cool!
I'm thinking of heading to Mark's tomorrow for the Mark Plaia X parting benefit, if I go I can drop by for a rudely brief visit. Thanks.
I'm thinking of heading to Mark's tomorrow for the Mark Plaia X parting benefit, if I go I can drop by for a rudely brief visit. Thanks.
kmead
Old enough to know better
Given that yours is already in the same position as the 1438 block mounted distributor you could easily run the Allison system down low.
Alternatively if you are looking to do Megasquirt, you could look at the solution Millers Mule sells. It can be programmed/run by the Mega cpu.
If you are looking to go only L-Jet then the Allison system is a great solution.
Karl
Alternatively if you are looking to do Megasquirt, you could look at the solution Millers Mule sells. It can be programmed/run by the Mega cpu.
If you are looking to go only L-Jet then the Allison system is a great solution.
Karl