Fiat 128 Familiare restomod AKA the "Substitute Teacher"

motoTrooper

motoTrooper

True Classic
So howdy new year to all the folks here. I picked up THIS ONE:

www.theautopian.com

They're Broken, But At Least They're Cheap: 1976 Fiat 128 vs 1987 Plymouth Turismo - The Autopian

Good morning! It’s time once again to look at a couple of terrible automotive ideas. Today, we have a couple of once-cute little hatchbacks that are currently screwed six ways from Sunday. But they’re cheap enough to pick up as projects. First, however, let’s finish Friday’s second-chance...
www.theautopian.com www.theautopian.com

Rather I saved it from the crusher. It's gotten folded into my Youtube series as I use it to learn some body work and suspension modifications to apply to the Scorpion project.
 
A suspension experiment utilizing the Ford Focus mounts and some help in the form of parts from FiatMonkey (Tim H. thanks buddy!)

 
Where you live in California what hoops will you have to jump through to get that swap be registered there?

There is an X member who is swapping that particular engine into his X so you may want to look at that thread.

It wants a 1500 to live in there. Or any other running Fiat single cam motor for that matter, there have been a few of them here on Xweb over the last year.

Though your old twin cam from the Scorpacarlo comes to mind for a real interesting modification…
:)

motoTrooper said:
Happy new year! And to nobody's surprise...

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kmead said:
Where you live in California what hoops will you have to jump through to get that swap be registered there?

There is an X member who is swapping that particular engine into his X so you may want to look at that thread.

It wants a 1500 to live in there. Or any other running Fiat single cam motor for that matter, there have been a few of them here on Xweb over the last year.

Though your old twin cam from the Scorpacarlo comes to mind for a real interesting modification…
:)
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Karl, these days... honestly I don't give a sh!t about hoops, I'm-a-gonna do as I like and let the chips fall where they may. I had considered a twin-cam (and they are around) but the issues of making it adapt to the old 4-speed that had even lower gearing for the wagon and still having an iron block just put the kibosh on that. Thanks for the tip about the other member doing a Fit swap. Definitely will look them up!
 
Didn't find the Fit swap you alluded to, perhaps you are referring to the Honda B swap? I think that's a twin-cam
 
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motoTrooper said:
A suspension experiment utilizing the Ford Focus mounts and some help in the form of parts from FiatMonkey (Tim H. thanks buddy!)

Click to expand...
A question for you regarding the Ford top strut mounts. Would you be able to do a little measurement of how high the top of the spring rests and the top of the strut rod mounts with the Ford mounts compared to the Fiat mounts? In other words, how much difference in ride height and travel is there between the two? Maybe these illustrations from someone elses conversion will help to clarify my question:

Looking at where the center strut rod mounts.....
20180819_115907 - Copy.jpg

Relative to where the mount fits to the strut tower/body....
20180824_185218.jpg


And the same for where the spring rests....
85218.jpg

Tall Under Side.jpg


Both locations compared to the same with the stock Fiat mount.

I guess this is assuming you are mounting the Ford units the same way as they were done in these pics. Also did you find it necessary to make this insert for the center rod to bolt to...
20180822_214048.jpg

20180822_214130.jpg


Please let me know if I can further explain what I'm asking. Thanks.
 
Sure I can do the dimensions, gimme a few days to do it. With respect to the machined aluminum spacer, as per the original poster (Giovanni?) I used a stack of 9/16 washers instead. 7 of them if I remember to get flush with the mount and allow for the threaded top end to not protrude too far whilst engaging the nylon of the locknut.
 
motoTrooper said:
Sure I can do the dimensions, gimme a few days to do it. With respect to the machined aluminum spacer, as per the original poster (Giovanni?) I used a stack of 9/16 washers instead. 7 of them if I remember to get flush with the mount and allow for the threaded top end to not protrude too far whilst engaging the nylon of the locknut.
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Thanks, no hurry. :)

If I'm not mistaken, that original project (I think you're right....Giovanni) was using the stock struts, springs, steering bearings (Fiat fiber disks), etc. And I believe (but not sure) the aluminum spacers were needed in order to retain the stock steering bearings. With your use of coilovers and the Ford steering bearings (on the spring instead of on the strut rod), I was wondering if those aluminum spacers might not be necessary? Perhaps a spacer could be placed on the top of the mount to take up the extra rod length (so the nut can thread all the way down)? That will allow the strut to sit higher up in the mount, effectively lowering the car that much without losing any suspension travel.

Also if it helps any in designing the setup, with coilovers the steering bearing can be located on the bottom of the spring. Then the spring stays with the top mount and the strut rotates under the spring. A lot of the aftermarket coilovers are done this way. The benefit here is it would eliminate the need to trim the Ford bearings (since they won't be used) and no need to make the collars. To locate steering bearings under the springs just use standard "thrust needle bearings" (often also called Torrington bearings):

2-5-Torrington-Bearing.jpg

I like your comment that the three mounting holes for the top mounts (in the strut towers) can simply be drilled out to allow the Ford bolt pattern to fit. I think in the original project he drilled new relocated holes in the towers for them. I'd prefer your approach. ;)

By the way I love this whole build. Not only do I love the 128 2-door wagon body, but as I commented to the other member installing a FIT engine (in his X), I prefer engine options like this over the popular "K" swap. Just makes more sense to me for these cars.....it might be different if we were talking about a much more valuable vehicle to begin with. For example there's a nicely K-swapped Ferrari 308: https://www.hotcars.com/stanceworks...son-for-k-swapping-a-classic-ferrari-308-gtb/
 
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Very good points Jeff. Honestly when I ordered the mounts, I ordered 4 with the bearings so I had 2 spare and "made do" with what was at hand. Placing the bearings under the spring is an interesting idea. I had thought that they were used with bearings at the top as well to eliminate any coil twist as the springs compress to give a more linear suspension action. I also feel that the washer stack is necessary for the rubber bumpers to have as a backstop. When I do them for the Lancia like the X1/9 I will have to drill new holes, just the 128's have the same equilateral triangle bolt pattern for the mounts.

Thanks for the encouragement on the Fit swap, I am really curious how driving a super light slow car fast will be!
 
Just to clarify what I was saying about the bearing. On the front struts a single bearing actually acts as both a steering (strut rotation) and coil compression (binding) bearing when located on the spring - either under or above it.
 
Hey Jeff, I just grabbed the old and new mounts and measured. For the old mount, I measured from the bottom of the aluminum cone to the top of the mounting plate and the same for the new mount which has the hollow steel cone in the bottom and they are identical at 1 1/8"

To "fill up" the hollow steel cone of the new mounts with washers is approx. 1/2"
 
motoTrooper said:
Hey Jeff, I just grabbed the old and new mounts and measured. For the old mount, I measured from the bottom of the aluminum cone to the top of the mounting plate and the same for the new mount which has the hollow steel cone in the bottom and they are identical at 1 1/8"

To "fill up" the hollow steel cone of the new mounts with washers is approx. 1/2"
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for doing that. So to make sure I understand correctly, with the washer spacers in place the new mount is 1 5/8 tall?
 
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