fiatmonkey
Tim Hoover
From a post on facebook from Fiat America:
http://www.torquenews.com/109/fiat-500-dealers-not-allowed-haggling
http://www.torquenews.com/109/fiat-500-dealers-not-allowed-haggling
Fiat 500 pricing policy - no haggling permitted.
- Thread starter fiatmonkey
- Start date
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Good, dickering is one of the WORST experiences of purchasing a new car. A relic from years ago, the car industry should have banned it long ago.
Bernice
Bernice
roadbox
True Classic
Well, sure. They should have banned dishonestly years ago, too. In reality, it will be the Internet which will make haggling obsolete, because it will be fast and easy to compare pricing from one dealer to another. I really don't have a problem with the concept of haggling because in the past it was only the well informed buyer who could protect himself against getting ripped off by greedy and deceptive dealer practices.
It also used to be that it was always cheaper to buy your new car away from big city centers. Dealers in more rural areas still have far lower overhead than near heavy population centers. My bet, as much as Fiat might want their dealers to have identical pricing, I will still get a better deal, even if just slightly, if I drive an hour away from where I live in the DC suburbs.
John O.
It also used to be that it was always cheaper to buy your new car away from big city centers. Dealers in more rural areas still have far lower overhead than near heavy population centers. My bet, as much as Fiat might want their dealers to have identical pricing, I will still get a better deal, even if just slightly, if I drive an hour away from where I live in the DC suburbs.
John O.
abarth2litre
1800CC SOHC X1/9
really!?
will the Co. ban dealer "Mark Ups" ? especially on the Abarths??
me thinks not! Then! they will let the market work.. we will see
will the Co. ban dealer "Mark Ups" ? especially on the Abarths??
me thinks not! Then! they will let the market work.. we will see
Can't remove haggling over price
Currently you get cars at less than MSRP, so the haggle is built into the system. You can't remove the haggling unless MSRPs come down at the same time.
It would be awesome to know that the "price is the price" and not have to spend days prepping for going in to the dealer, but I don't know that I could ever trust a dealer at this point in my life.
Currently you get cars at less than MSRP, so the haggle is built into the system. You can't remove the haggling unless MSRPs come down at the same time.
It would be awesome to know that the "price is the price" and not have to spend days prepping for going in to the dealer, but I don't know that I could ever trust a dealer at this point in my life.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Every car brand should ditch dickering/haggling. It is simply awful in every way imaginable. Car dealers don't make their keep on new car sales, they do make it on service and add ons.
Note how difficult it might be to purchase a stripper, base model and what it cost to get scheduled service by the dealer. Then there are parts cost.
The low new car price is there to get the owner into the system, then the reality hits. Think Polaroid cameras being cheap new, but each image is where the cost and profits are. Or, printers where their new cost is nil, but the refills are sure expensive..for what they are.
Bernice
Note how difficult it might be to purchase a stripper, base model and what it cost to get scheduled service by the dealer. Then there are parts cost.
The low new car price is there to get the owner into the system, then the reality hits. Think Polaroid cameras being cheap new, but each image is where the cost and profits are. Or, printers where their new cost is nil, but the refills are sure expensive..for what they are.
Bernice
Currently you get cars at less than MSRP, so the haggle is built into the system. You can't remove the haggling unless MSRPs come down at the same time.
It would be awesome to know that the "price is the price" and not have to spend days prepping for going in to the dealer, but I don't know that I could ever trust a dealer at this point in my life.
roadbox
True Classic
I think you are 100% right, they absolutely SHOULD get rid of haggling, but as long as greed has an easy home in car dealerships, sleezebags will think they can step around the common sense prospect you see to rape a couple extra bucks out of buyer who's shown without having done any homework. I've known too many car dealers to believe that a simple edict from the top is all it will take to "clean up Dodge." (couldn't resist the pun)
John O.
Low price?!?!
Holy Cow Bernice!! (With apologies to our Hindu readers)
I guess I am just a cheap old man. I see new car prices as outrageous. The exceptions are the low end small cars in the 10K-12K, but I don't like those too well.
The last new car I bought for for myself was a Mazda sedan (626?) back in 1983 or so. I have bought two new cars for my wife (1987 and 2001), but other than those I have stayed out of the new car dealerships.
Holy Cow Bernice!! (With apologies to our Hindu readers)
I guess I am just a cheap old man.
I see new car prices as outrageous. The exceptions are the low end small cars in the 10K-12K, but I don't like those too well.The last new car I bought for for myself was a Mazda sedan (626?) back in 1983 or so. I have bought two new cars for my wife (1987 and 2001), but other than those I have stayed out of the new car dealerships.
car dealers
Car dealers have a special set of laws protecting them from the car manufacturers. For example, you'd think it would be good to order a car on-line from the manufacturer with your set of options and color, but you can't. Car manufacturers are not allowed to sell to the public in all 50 states. It's a pretty evil set of circumstances in my opinion - basically the dealers bribed their way into this.
No-haggling is pretty good, though. Of course, financing and trade-in value can differ from dealer to dealer.
Car dealers have a special set of laws protecting them from the car manufacturers. For example, you'd think it would be good to order a car on-line from the manufacturer with your set of options and color, but you can't. Car manufacturers are not allowed to sell to the public in all 50 states. It's a pretty evil set of circumstances in my opinion - basically the dealers bribed their way into this.
No-haggling is pretty good, though. Of course, financing and trade-in value can differ from dealer to dealer.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Thanks a lot Tim... more dessention amongst...
... our members here!
Good going! HAHAHAHA!
Hey... It has always fascinated me that we will go into a grocery store and pay whatever is marked for our apples and other edible goods. In most other countries, they haggle over the price for a single pear!
In those same countries... they pay whatever is marked plus outrageous shipping charges for their automobiles... and we here in the States will hardly NEVER pay what is asked!
Yet some of us have been known to actually pay a PREMIUM over and above the MSRP for the NEWEST or an extremely popular car!
Then again some of us have friends... who owe us... and collect on those debts. I dunno what my brother Giuseppe has on the Las Vegas Dealers Association... but I got tremendous deals on my last three new cars through him... delivered to my home in CA... after they "fell off a truck"...
... our members here!
Good going! HAHAHAHA!
Hey... It has always fascinated me that we will go into a grocery store and pay whatever is marked for our apples and other edible goods. In most other countries, they haggle over the price for a single pear!
In those same countries... they pay whatever is marked plus outrageous shipping charges for their automobiles... and we here in the States will hardly NEVER pay what is asked!
Yet some of us have been known to actually pay a PREMIUM over and above the MSRP for the NEWEST or an extremely popular car!
Then again some of us have friends... who owe us... and collect on those debts. I dunno what my brother Giuseppe has on the Las Vegas Dealers Association... but I got tremendous deals on my last three new cars through him... delivered to my home in CA... after they "fell off a truck"...
Tony, my wife is originally from Brazil, where
haggling is common practice. It kinda embarrasses me when we go to places like Nordstroms and she starts haggling. I slink away playing like "I don't know who this lady is".
When we lived in NY, one of the times we went to Manhattan, she got haggling with a Nigerian selling knockoff Rolex watches on the street. He started out asking for $250. After walking away several times, she had him in tears (probably false) when he accepted $10 for the watch...... and he was probably still making a profit. She can be absoutely ruthless and tough. What a great lady!!!!!
Mike
haggling is common practice. It kinda embarrasses me when we go to places like Nordstroms and she starts haggling. I slink away playing like "I don't know who this lady is".
When we lived in NY, one of the times we went to Manhattan, she got haggling with a Nigerian selling knockoff Rolex watches on the street. He started out asking for $250. After walking away several times, she had him in tears (probably false) when he accepted $10 for the watch...... and he was probably still making a profit. She can be absoutely ruthless and tough. What a great lady!!!!!
Mike
Eastep
True Classic
Ive got mixed emotions on the subject. I feel that we should be able to buy direct from the cars manufacturer, dealers shouldnt be a sleezy as they are (thats why theyre called "stealerships") but as for normal price haggling. in most cases I'm insulted if someone isnt willing to negotiate. BTW the same story about the watches in NYC happened to me except it was a Ferrari automatic watch not Rolex.
First off--there is no banning
Thanks to US anti-trust laws--no manufacturer can set pricing--that is why is it called Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price. The dealer can sell the car for a dollar. The manufacturer can restrict advertising of an item below a certain price and that seems to be what they are doing.
The problem with fixed pricing at dealers--is that they are all owned by separate people. Requiring all sellers to sell at the same price would be like saying Sony TV's should be priced the same at all stores. Last time I checked we did not live in North Korea or Cuba.
Finally--why fixed pricing does not work (Saturn quit doing it after about 10 years of trying) is trade in's!!! One dealer can charge you MSRP for your new car but give you $4000 for your beater while another dealer may discount the MSRP but only give you $500 for that car.
Personally, I do not like haggling at all. The process at most new car dealers is just plain silly. I like buying used. A former co-worker of mine was a car dealer from the 1950's through the 1980's. One of his favorite stories was that he loved when someone would come in and try to out-haggle him. Lets see--he negotiated 4 car deals a day for 30 years or maybe 1500 or so in his lifetime. The average person is probably buying car number 3, 4, 5. Who has experience on their side?
And now the final final. Yes, I will haggle down the price on my Prima Edizione.
Eric
Thanks to US anti-trust laws--no manufacturer can set pricing--that is why is it called Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price. The dealer can sell the car for a dollar. The manufacturer can restrict advertising of an item below a certain price and that seems to be what they are doing.
The problem with fixed pricing at dealers--is that they are all owned by separate people. Requiring all sellers to sell at the same price would be like saying Sony TV's should be priced the same at all stores. Last time I checked we did not live in North Korea or Cuba.
Finally--why fixed pricing does not work (Saturn quit doing it after about 10 years of trying) is trade in's!!! One dealer can charge you MSRP for your new car but give you $4000 for your beater while another dealer may discount the MSRP but only give you $500 for that car.
Personally, I do not like haggling at all. The process at most new car dealers is just plain silly. I like buying used. A former co-worker of mine was a car dealer from the 1950's through the 1980's. One of his favorite stories was that he loved when someone would come in and try to out-haggle him. Lets see--he negotiated 4 car deals a day for 30 years or maybe 1500 or so in his lifetime. The average person is probably buying car number 3, 4, 5. Who has experience on their side?
And now the final final. Yes, I will haggle down the price on my Prima Edizione.
Eric
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Hmmmm... Well, the BEST deals for...
both parties are... When the seller gets a little more than he was willing to sell for, and the buyer pays a little less than he was willing to pay.
Then both sides are happy and to get to that point, a bit of FRIENDLY negotiation will need to take place.
No need to haggle...
both parties are... When the seller gets a little more than he was willing to sell for, and the buyer pays a little less than he was willing to pay.
Then both sides are happy and to get to that point, a bit of FRIENDLY negotiation will need to take place.
No need to haggle...
mx5rush
True Classic
This is so true... After 46 years of life I know of ABSOLUTELY zero people who have 'enjoyed' buying a new car. Sure, they might love the car they leave with, but the process is always complained about. And that stands even if they feel like they got a 'deal', they always feel like the dealer wrung them thru the wringer with bickering back and forth over stuff like window 'security' etching, pinstripes, 'paint sealer', extended warranties, and other crap for 4 hours before they'd finally sign the papers. This includes friends at work who have bought cars at awesome 'locked in' prices thru the contract between our employer(railroad) and the auto companies. I've heard that once they realize you are getting the car at a specific price they just basically go "What do you want?" and find one in that color. It's easy!!! But all have complained that the dealer pulled some seemingly intentional stunt, like told him to pick the car up at 1pm... only to not release it from 'detailing' for 3 hours, when no one touched the car for the last 2 and a half while he was in the showroom waiting for the keys to his new car.
I did have one friend who was actually happy for a few weeks after he and his fiancee bought a new car... when the papers were signed the dealer had down like $200 or 300 dollars more credit for the trade than they had agreed on!!! Danny felt like he'd won something... but they were buying a brand new Ford Escort EXP, so it wasn't very long before he knew he'd been had.
mx5rush
True Classic
My wife too... but hers comes from growing up with a mom who was from the same little town as my grand parents.
Years ago I got nominated by my mom to take her dad to a doctors appointment. He was well into his 80's and getting too dangerous to drive. Anyway, after the appointment he wanted to head to a grocery store... where my grandfather blew me away when he started dickering over the price of individual can goods with the checker! He and my grandmother were totally comfortable bankaccount wise, but totally depression era mindset as far as paying for things. After my grandfather had died I was with my mom one night buying stuff for my grandmother. I saw my mom cutting the corner off a bag of Brach's hard candy. I said "Isn't that for grandma?" because I thought my mom was going to eat some. Her response was "I'm cutting off the 89cent price tag printed on the bag... my mom thinks a bag of candy like this is 5 cents. If she knew it was 90 cents she wouldn't eat it anymore."
No one asked but I'll mention this tradition...
Quakers have a fair business tradition of fixed but fair pricing:
"Later, when many Quakers became successful in business (such as Cadbury, Rowntree, Fry, etc.), they set a fixed price for goods on sale rather than setting a high price and haggling over it with the buyer. Quakers believed that it was dishonest to set an unfair price to begin with. By having fair fixed prices Quakers soon developed a reputation as honest businessmen, and many people came to trust them in trading and in banking.[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testimony_of_Integrity
Quakers have a fair business tradition of fixed but fair pricing:
"Later, when many Quakers became successful in business (such as Cadbury, Rowntree, Fry, etc.), they set a fixed price for goods on sale rather than setting a high price and haggling over it with the buyer. Quakers believed that it was dishonest to set an unfair price to begin with. By having fair fixed prices Quakers soon developed a reputation as honest businessmen, and many people came to trust them in trading and in banking.[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testimony_of_Integrity
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
What Is It Really Worth?
When anyone makes a purchase of _, what is it's true value????
In the case of a car, the value of it comes on many levels beyond transportation. Should the amount paid by the purchaser include the cost of design, production, materials, after purchase support for the car and a host of other cost associated with proper product support years after it's initial purchase?
What is a fair margin and what is over charging?
So many purchased items these days are driven by trying to get it for nothing mind set, even if the item does not serve it's intended need.
How many techno widgets have folks here purchased that fail to deliver it's advertised service or have problems shortly after purchase? How many made in _ tools have been purchased only to discover they simply do not get the job done or if it does, the tool fails shortly after.
How may techno widgets have made life more complex and frustrating rather than improving life by meeting a real need instead of meeting a perceived need?
Now think of the wasted resources and labor that went into these items that should have never been produced to begin with. Like that imitation Rolex watch with a price tag of $250 haggled down to $10, but is likely to die in short time. If there is any real value in this imitation Rolex, then one must ask what slave labor and exploited resources were involved in it's production. Regardless, this is the kind of stuff I stay away from and do not support by monetary vote.
Basically, all involved in need to set aside the greed factor and understand that there are cost involved for every item consumed. All involved need to put food on the table and keep a roof atop of their heads.
Me, I'm willing to spend if the post sales support is good and the item does precisely what is expected of it for a good long time.
Bernice
When anyone makes a purchase of _, what is it's true value????
In the case of a car, the value of it comes on many levels beyond transportation. Should the amount paid by the purchaser include the cost of design, production, materials, after purchase support for the car and a host of other cost associated with proper product support years after it's initial purchase?
What is a fair margin and what is over charging?
So many purchased items these days are driven by trying to get it for nothing mind set, even if the item does not serve it's intended need.
How many techno widgets have folks here purchased that fail to deliver it's advertised service or have problems shortly after purchase? How many made in _ tools have been purchased only to discover they simply do not get the job done or if it does, the tool fails shortly after.
How may techno widgets have made life more complex and frustrating rather than improving life by meeting a real need instead of meeting a perceived need?
Now think of the wasted resources and labor that went into these items that should have never been produced to begin with. Like that imitation Rolex watch with a price tag of $250 haggled down to $10, but is likely to die in short time. If there is any real value in this imitation Rolex, then one must ask what slave labor and exploited resources were involved in it's production. Regardless, this is the kind of stuff I stay away from and do not support by monetary vote.
Basically, all involved in need to set aside the greed factor and understand that there are cost involved for every item consumed. All involved need to put food on the table and keep a roof atop of their heads.
Me, I'm willing to spend if the post sales support is good and the item does precisely what is expected of it for a good long time.
Bernice