fiat x1/9 carb to fi progress

[Dr.Jeff]

i can confirm its open when its cold, and when i connect it up to 12v it closes down to almost nothing(almost a pinhole in size) in the opening

That sounds correct.

the engine started from cold and ran at 1500 RPM, but would not come down after 15 mins unless i crimped the AAV hose

That sounds like the 12V supply isn't getting to the AAV? But I think you checked that? Test it again, on the engine, everything hooked up, both cold and hot...to see if there is 12V to the AAV at any time. I believe the 12V signal is only fed to the AAV for a period of time. After that the heat from the engine keeps the AAV warm; the mounting position of the AAV onto the engine allows heat to transfer to the AAV's body and keep the valve inside closed. So if it isn't mounted onto the engine that heat transfer won't get to the AAV and the valve will remain open.
As a test, you can also try running a temporary 12V signal to the AAV (with jumper wires) while the engine warms up. It should close the valve and slow down the idle.

 

[lookforjoe]

This is where the AAV mounts on the EFI head:

 

[lookforjoe]

AAV gets power all the time. I can't remember if the ground is regulated via the ECU, I would assume so, since the ground leg goes into it.

 

[jcstuckinmuck]

Hi yes its getting the 12v supply, i did meter it, it appears to have a supply only when in start or engine running, ive cleaned the unit with carb cleaner still no change, so i had brought one from a rolls royce, will let you guys know of the outcome. here is a video of it running, iam going to put the fuel pump under the car for quietness and space, sorry for the ignition interfarance in the vid.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Also check for any vacuum leaks.

 

[jcstuckinmuck]

Hi all back on with the conversion, aav all done and fitted to the head,as the carb version does not have the bolt holes in it, i decided this is about the best position and it now works fine, also i have relocated the fuel pump to the correct location. The ignition has now been converted to Lumenition, and the spare wheel bracket has been removed for now and ecu and double relay now fitted in place, so far so good.
Air filter i am going to fit a performance unit, still cannot find a fuel filter bracket anywhere, dont even know what it looks like,does anybody have one forsale??.
NOW THIS BIT IS STRANGE CAN ANYONE CLUE ME IN
I have set the timing to 5 degrees before tdc and the engine is not as responsive as i hoped, engine idle at 850 rpm great,so without touching the throttle ive turned the distributor and advanced it(sounding better, so i kept advancing and the revs went up to 2,000 rpm!!! and managed to get 30 degrees advance without pinking Whats going on!!!! anybody know if this is even possable?

AAV in place

Lumenition electronic ignition in place

Fuel filter in correct location

Fuel filter bracket to do.

Ecu mounted in place and note electonic ignition wires.

Got to weld to hole where wheel bracket went and dizzy again.

Ecu and double relay in place

Also just found out the car was silver when new, so it will get the bodywork done it does not look right in green. BTW this picture of the car was taken last year

 

[MikeHynes]

NOW THIS BIT IS STRANGE CAN ANYONE CLUE ME IN
I have set the timing to 5 degrees before tdc and the engine is not as responsive as i hoped, engine idle at 850 rpm great,so without touching the throttle ive turned the distributor and advanced it(sounding better, so i kept advancing and the revs went up to 2,000 rpm!!! and managed to get 30 degrees advance without pinking Whats going on!!!! anybody know if this is even possable?

It sounds like you might not be getting full mechanical ignition advance. You should have a total ignition advance of around 35' TDC at 3,500. You'll need a dial back timing light to check your ignition timing at 3,500 RPM. If you don't see 35' - 36' advance at 3,500 RPM check it at 4,000 RPM, you want at least 35' at full advance. You don't have the stock Bosch dist. so it's hard to say what kind of advance curve you actually have, but it's not really too important as long as the total advance is in the 35' - 36' range. If you don't have 35' - 36' total advance, bump up your initial advance until you do.
You can advance your initial advance very far when there is no load on the engine, it won't ping. It will ping if you put a load on it by driving it - as long as the mechanical advance is working.

 

[lookforjoe]

Base timing for FI is 10 btdc, so start there. Run too little idle timing & engine will tend to run hot also.

 

[Rodger]

still cannot find a fuel filter bracket anywhere, dont even know what it looks like,does anybody have one forsale??.

I have one that has been totally refurbished. Powdercoated and the brackets replated. New rubber standoffs. I can take pictures of it tonight and post them.

 

[Rodger]

Here is a photo of it. It mounts to the two studs that originally held the carburetor cooling fan. $70 plus whatever shipping would be to the UK.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

On mine the filter (and pretty much everything else) has been relocated so the original filter bracket would not work without a bunch of modification. It isn't "stock", but instead I just use a large one of these:

 

[kmead]

So many possible comments here.

 

[kmead]

I would replace the clamp on the hose leading from the pump. This one is maxed out and likely isn’t going to ensure a seal over time.

 

[jcstuckinmuck]

Hi all, sorry ive been off the forum, health issues and work, car has been running for a year on the injection setup, it has lumenition ignition fitted too, so that i dont have to fiddle with points.
But still have issues, it starts instanly from cold and drives well , which has been well worth the conversion, but this problem still persist, when the engine gets hot and really up to tempreture, it starts misfiring and gets worse them eventually stops, with no restart, if i let it cool down it fires up fine, everything seems to be in order, just wondering if anyone has any ideas or expirenced this, i have looked in the fi manual, nothing seems to point to the issue i have, ias the fi isnt comon in uk, just wondered if anyone in the USA has heard of this issue, i will put up a vid and update the final bits to this for others, hope everyone is keeping safe in these awful times

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I haven't experienced this with a stock FI system per se. But if it is fuel related (opposed to elsewhere, like the ignition cutting out when hot) then it sounds like a couple of possibilities.

Perhaps some sort of vapor lock condition, however that would be very unlikely with the constant fuel flow of the FI system (assuming it is installed in a stock configuration with a return flow to the tank?). But the X's injectors do get rather hot, hence the cooling fan arrangement added by Fiat.

Another thought is it might be getting very lean when hot. I recall there were issues with the AAV, is it possible it is allowing too much air flow when fully up to temp (especially if compounded by an already lean mixture at normal temps)? Do you have any means of checking your air:fuel ratios?

Yet another possible direction to investigate is an electrical issue caused by too much heat. Say one of the critical FI electrical components is overheating and shutting down?

Be sure to exclude other systems as well, like the above mention of ignition cut-out. Sorry these aren't direct answers but hopefully it offers suggestions on what to look for. Lets us know more info and what you find out.

 

[maz124s]

Hi jcstuckinmuck

firstly thanks for all your informative videos detailing this conversion it convinced me to go ahead with own carb to fi conversion and can say im over the moon with difference from my old carb, cold s instant start and so much smoother

back to your problem, my other carb x1/9 totally original carb model bar the install of the same lumenation distrubutor and i had the exact same issue, when car gets very hot i get a strange misfire , when car cools down problem dissapears so it seems to be related to lumenation distributor or coil

my next move will be to go back to a factory bosch system so think its actually not related to your fuel injection system

 

[JimD]

back to your problem, my other carb x1/9 totally original carb model bar the install of the same lumenation distrubutor and i had the exact same issue, when car gets very hot i get a strange misfire , when car cools down problem dissapears so it seems to be related to lumenation distributor or coil

I don't know anything about a lumenation ignition, but if it that unit were in a computer and had a heat issue, I would screw a 12v fan onto that heat sink. Or maybe add some more heat sink material and a fan.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

the same lumenation distrubutor and i had the exact same issue, when car gets very hot i get a strange misfire

I believe that explains it. And it totally makes sense.

A long time ago I looked into "Lumenation Ignitions" for a particular non-Fiat model that I was restoring/customizing. They had an electronic ignition for it, despite it being a very odd model. However I saw some odd feedback about some of their stuff. Guys seemed to either love or hate it. Usually I don't give much credit to most internet opinions like that, especially when they don't have anything to support their opinion other than "it sucks". Given the shipping cost and time to America I kept looking and found something else to use instead, so I can't say how the product quality was. But this current thread brings back memory of those negative comments about LI failures. Hummm.