Four cylinder Boxsters?

carl

carl

True Classic
A guy in the neighborhood has a nice looking late model Boxster. It must have some kind of sport exhaust as it's louder than I would expect and has lots of popping and burbling on trailing throttle. Anyway, it sounds like a WRX at idle and a vintage VW bug on accel. I recall reading somewhere that Porsche was putting flat fours in that model and I guess this is one of them. It sounds terrible and if I had a Porsche I wouldn't want it to sound like an old bug. Why did Porsche management think this was a good marketing idea?
 
Not to worry porsche grudgingly went back to the flat 6 and a manual based on customer complaints. They were surprised at the amount of orders for this combination. I admire porsche for listening to its customers unlike the italians.
 
I had to look it up to believe it: the 2016 onward Boxster has a turbocharged flat four to replace the NA flat six. That'll certainly take away some of the Porsche character, but it's probably a smart move for efficiency, torque, cooling, and packaging.
 
The 718 series of Boxster and Cayman both still have 4 Cyl Turbos, but the GTS and GT4/Spyder have the 4.0 flat 6. Porsche didn't really admit they got it wrong, but for a price, they will.
 
I don't doubt a turbo 4 is a nice combination, my GTI and Kia Optima have that. Just saying that when you sell your gold chains to get a Porsche you expect certain things and a soul stirring flat six is part of it. If you were in to practicality and common sense you wouldn't be looking for a Porsche in the first place.
 
Regulations for emissions and fuel economy have caused most manufacturers to downsize their range of engines. However in most cases a turbocharged engine of smaller displacement actually has more performance than the larger NA engine it replaces. And it weighs less. On my last trip to Europe I rented a standard model compact car with a 1 liter 3 cylinder turbo engine and it had amazing performance. Technology is continually advancing and things aren't what we were accustomed to in the old days.

Regarding the Porsche Boxster in particular, remember the 914? A flat 4 VW engine that didn't perform particularly well. And it was sold as a "affordable" entry level Porsche. But look at the prices for those cars now. The concept of the Boxster was to be a modern replacement for the 914. And they didn't want it completing with the 911 for sales (e.g. performance levels). So it's rather amazing that it did not come with a 4 cylinder from the beginning.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Regulations for emissions and fuel economy have caused most manufacturers to downsize their range of engines. However in most cases a turbocharged engine of smaller displacement actually has more performance than the larger NA engine it replaces. And it weighs less. On my last trip to Europe I rented a standard model compact car with a 1 liter 3 cylinder turbo engine and it had amazing performance. Technology is continually advancing and things aren't what we were accustomed to in the old days.

Regarding the Porsche Boxster in particular, remember the 914? A flat 4 VW engine that didn't perform particularly well. And it was sold as a "affordable" entry level Porsche. But look at the prices for those cars now. The concept of the Boxster was to be a modern replacement for the 914. And they didn't want it completing with the 911 for sales (e.g. performance levels). So it's rather amazing that it did not come with a 4 cylinder from the beginning.
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Yup, Porsche really screwed the pooch with the Boxster, rather then stay an entry level car it up scaled quickly and with its superior mid engine layout, many feel it is a superior chassis to the 911. Porsche now has to play games with its gearing and engine output to keep it from eating 911 sales and still needs an entry level car. But once given you can't taketh away, they started with the 6 cylinder, now any move to a 4 will appear as a cheat to the customer and drive away sales.
 
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All the car manufacturers are getting ready to jump off the cliff edge on electric cars. It probably is the future of car powertrains so electric Miatas, Vettes, Porsches etc are to be expected. We are of a generation that includes the aural thrill of the motor as part of the sports car experience and we may never accept a whisper quiet car on full accel.

I can't imagine riding a Ducati and just hearing the whine of the motor/trans of an electric power plant!
 
carl said:
All the car manufacturers are getting ready to jump off the cliff edge on electric cars. It probably is the future of car powertrains so electric Miatas, Vettes, Porsches etc are to be expected. We are of a generation that includes the aural thrill of the motor as part of the sports car experience and we may never accept a whisper quiet car on full accel.

I can't imagine riding a Ducati and just hearing the whine of the motor/trans of an electric power plant!
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Well, many of the upscale manufacturers use the car's sound system to "pipe in" the car sounds that their current cars don't in reality make, but the customers expect to hear.

"Noooooo problem, we'll record one of our old cars making that sound and tell the computer to tell the sound system to play it when Mr. More-Money-Than-Brains stomps on the throttle."
 
Almost on topic -
What do you think Harley Davidson is going to do with their electric bike? Add a big speaker/amplifier so they can BLAT BLAT BLAT down the street?
 
I am into the exhaust note as part of a spirited drive but not while just steady stating down the road. That's why I enjoy my silly X with dual webers and header/turbo muffler. I love hearing it on song but it's loud enough that I rarely rev over 4,500 if around other drivers.

My old 78 Yamaha was a triple and with a Kerker exhaust would make the hair on my neck stand up when blasting a section of road with Jersey barriers on both sides. Our Kia is so quiet it might as well be electric and my GTI has Sounddoktor thing that "enhances" the engine sound. Current Mustangs must come with factory exhaust cutouts as some of them are excruciatingly loud.
 
MikeHynes said:
Almost on topic -
What do you think Harley Davidson is going to do with their electric bike? Add a big speaker/amplifier so they can BLAT BLAT BLAT down the street?
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I rode one a couple weekends ago at a demo event. It has a haptic “heartbeat” when you start it up. Otherwise, you can faintly hear the belt drive, various bearings, and mechanical systems, but the big sound is the inverter. They may augment it with some other sounds, but I couldn’t see a speaker.

From an audio perspective, the riding experience is close to what I imagine bird flight is like.

I often enjoy mechanical sounds on a vehicle, but I prefer speed to sound. With a 3 second 0-60 time it can get to 60 almost as fast as dropping it from a plane.

I have never been big on Harleys, but I came away from the Livewire demo a fan despite a few complaints.
 
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I think most folks looking for an E-bike are not looking for the sound of an IC motor or in the case of a Harley, the vibration too.
 
I'm running open pipes except for the two catalytic converters. Pretty darn loud but boy does it sound good!
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carl said:
I think most folks looking for an E-bike are not looking for the sound of an IC motor or in the case of a Harley, the vibration too.
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The first protypes of the current H-D engine design, the Milwaukee 8 (four valves per cylinder but still pushrod-driven) were designed to be fully balanced, with virtually no vibration. Customer focus groups riding the first prototypes hated it. The engineers had to go back to the drawing board to put back some of the familiar vibrations.

From https://www.cycleworld.com/harley-davidson-motorcycles-new-milwaukee-eight-big-twin-engine/
For the first time in a rubber-mounted Big Twin, a single counter-rotating internal balancer is used to cancel 75 percent of the engine’s primary shaking force. When an engine with complete vibration cancellation was tested, riders rejected it; some vibration is an essential element of Harley’s unique feel. Riders of long ago accepted lots of raw vibration, but most riders today do not—and Harley-Davidson here appears to be satisfying the faithful customer with some of the shake they love while also smoothing the engine to the degree that will attract new customers with an increased level of refinement. Heavy vibration is tiring, so long-distance riders want engine smoothness—but still want the drama of handlebars shaking at idle—and the relationship with the moving parts.
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Milwaukee 8 vibration at idle is pretty tame for an H-D:
 
carl said:
Just saying that when you sell your gold chains to get a Porsche you expect certain things and a soul stirring flat six is part of it. If you were in to practicality and common sense you wouldn't be looking for a Porsche in the first place.
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True, but there is roughly 25 years of Porsche flat four engines, including the 356, Spyder, and 912 and finishing with the 914 before they went flat six with the 911. So Porsche is not exactly synonymous with a flat six engine, no matter how enjoyable that engine is.

All major automakers ultimately make pragmatic decisions regarding powertrains. I would never ever argue that a turbo boxer 4 is going to be a more sonorous engine than a flat six (with or without a turbocharger,) but the turbo 4 is going to create more thrust than the NA six cylinder, probably while burning less fuel and making lower emissions.

Plus, I think "dieselgate" still resonates strong with VAG, so they're going to take every opportunity to clean up their vehicles from the bottom to the top. VAG is going to be all electric in a few years if they hold to their promise, and Porsche will probably not be far behind. We might as well get used to it now. Hey, we have to do something to free up that gasoline supply for the billions of people who live in the third world and who will not be going electric in their lifetimes or in the lifetimes of their grandchildren.
 
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