Headlight motor rewiring
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
If it's electrical Bobby Brown has done it
Here you go:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/1215...ds+without+cutting+any+wires-+<dl+warn>
Here you go:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/1215...ds+without+cutting+any+wires-+<dl+warn>
///Mike
'76 & '85
I'm curious why it would not work to just T off of the wire that triggers the low beam relay, run that wire through a switch, and then use it to actuate the headlight motor relay?
I was planning to do something to that effect when I get around to adding separate headlight relays per the BB mod. I was thinking to bypass the existing headlight relays with a jumper since they'd no longer be needed. Then I thought I'd remove the wire that actuates the low beam relay from the relay socket and use it to replace the wire that actuates the headlight motor relay. That way it's still a "no-cut" mod. A switch could be added easily as well.
Wouldn't that work? Seems much easier, at least for those who have added the extra headlight relays.
///Mike
I was planning to do something to that effect when I get around to adding separate headlight relays per the BB mod. I was thinking to bypass the existing headlight relays with a jumper since they'd no longer be needed. Then I thought I'd remove the wire that actuates the low beam relay from the relay socket and use it to replace the wire that actuates the headlight motor relay. That way it's still a "no-cut" mod. A switch could be added easily as well.
Wouldn't that work? Seems much easier, at least for those who have added the extra headlight relays.
///Mike
Mike, you can do it that way
if you want, (pull the wire out of the relay socket and insert a switch)
I did it the way of my post because it's a plug-in mod and I wanted an insertable way to do it.
But the essence is to interrupt the motor wire with a relay, then re-connect it when power is applied to the headlights. (bulbs)
My schematic explains it very well.
Good luck!
if you want, (pull the wire out of the relay socket and insert a switch)
I did it the way of my post because it's a plug-in mod and I wanted an insertable way to do it.
But the essence is to interrupt the motor wire with a relay, then re-connect it when power is applied to the headlights. (bulbs)
My schematic explains it very well.
Good luck!
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
///Mike... I once tried to do this myself...
... on my '79 using a simple mod that Bruce (Parts Bin) in New Jersey submitted.
It was then that I found the '79 was wired like no other... as are the '74s, '75s, and so on...
Bob Brown's is a late model Bertone... and I haven't seen his schematic... but I betcha its no match for what ya got. The PRINCIPLE might/should work... but I found that especially the early models have some unique wiring from year to year and US versus Euro.
Good luck in your attempt...
... on my '79 using a simple mod that Bruce (Parts Bin) in New Jersey submitted.
It was then that I found the '79 was wired like no other... as are the '74s, '75s, and so on...
Bob Brown's is a late model Bertone... and I haven't seen his schematic... but I betcha its no match for what ya got. The PRINCIPLE might/should work... but I found that especially the early models have some unique wiring from year to year and US versus Euro.
Good luck in your attempt...
jvandyke
True Classic
In my recent saga Head Lights Don't Move
I discovered a PO had taken the green wires that run from each headlight motor relay up to the motors, cut them, then ran wires to two switches in the console, interrupting the circuit when these switches are open. I troubleshot for hours until I figured out all I had to do was hit one of those switches....pretty dang funny, no?
Net effect of this mod is (and I think I have this right)
If EITHER added switch is off (open circuit) neither headlight pod moves when lights are on either parking lights or full. If you have both switches set to close the circuit (before turning on lights) BOTH headlights pop up. If you then hit either extra switch (opening the circuit), nothing happens, headlights will stay up. You have to turn off the lights with the added switches "on" for the lights to retract.
So this allows you to have parking lights on with headlights down but if you want to then turn on the headlights you have to first turn off the lights, close the extra switches, then turn the lights back on. I think that's what it was doing.
Man I'm confused. I haven't played with it much yet (car is undergoing gas tank refurb). Net effect is if I leave the extra switches on (circuit closed) things behave normally. If either switch is open, no headlight movement and you will only get movement if the switch is closed before the lights are triggered. I don't think the PO intended this but he left it like that and it confused the daylights out of me.
I'm still confused. It is a complicated circuit. I'm leaving it because it bugs me I can't have "running" lights with headlights down. This mod allows it but it's clunky.
I discovered a PO had taken the green wires that run from each headlight motor relay up to the motors, cut them, then ran wires to two switches in the console, interrupting the circuit when these switches are open. I troubleshot for hours until I figured out all I had to do was hit one of those switches....pretty dang funny, no?
Net effect of this mod is (and I think I have this right)
If EITHER added switch is off (open circuit) neither headlight pod moves when lights are on either parking lights or full. If you have both switches set to close the circuit (before turning on lights) BOTH headlights pop up. If you then hit either extra switch (opening the circuit), nothing happens, headlights will stay up. You have to turn off the lights with the added switches "on" for the lights to retract.
So this allows you to have parking lights on with headlights down but if you want to then turn on the headlights you have to first turn off the lights, close the extra switches, then turn the lights back on. I think that's what it was doing.
Man I'm confused. I haven't played with it much yet (car is undergoing gas tank refurb). Net effect is if I leave the extra switches on (circuit closed) things behave normally. If either switch is open, no headlight movement and you will only get movement if the switch is closed before the lights are triggered. I don't think the PO intended this but he left it like that and it confused the daylights out of me.
I'm still confused. It is a complicated circuit. I'm leaving it because it bugs me I can't have "running" lights with headlights down. This mod allows it but it's clunky.
Robert Mose
True Classic
My 79 has always left the pods down on the first "click".
jvandyke
True Classic
"Luckeeee" (Napolean Dynamite)
I think a three way type switch, one for each headlight, where you push it up to get a momentary contact and pod goes up, (headlight comes on automatically everytime pods move up, off when down). When you let go it retracts, light goes out. So you could wink either side or both as quickly and for as long as you hold the switch.
If you push the switch down, pod goes up stays up light comes on until you push the switch back to middle off.
I'll make that my monster mod for WAY WAY WAY down the road. Build off Bob's work no doubt.
Yes I know that is rife with trouble as the momentary when held would cycle the lights continually up and down, and they wouldn't retract when released.....and yes I said it was monster......
Michael Oxman
The Journey Begins!
I was inspired by a recent post here of a wiring diagram from Mirafiori, and tooling around that site I found this diagram which might be of interest to anyone who wants to try this mod. I did not try this, just found it interesting. I'm posting here because I see that JimD's link above didn't work for me.
Attachments
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Ya, the link is dead for me as well. I wonder, is the diagram just posted the same approach that B.Brown did?
kmead
Old enough to know better
Doesn’t look like the work of BB.
kmead
Old enough to know better
This was Mac’s approach, I will find the BB version and post it if possible, old threads and picture hosting…
Anything can be done in this age of technology and Radio Shack!
Anything can be done in this age of technology and Radio Shack!
All you'd have to do is this:
Tap into the headlight power switch. It is a 3-position switch: off/parks/headlights - You need to get into the wire that goes 'hot' only in the 'headlight' position. If you tap the parking light wire by accident, you will end up making a system that mimics the stock arrangement quite nicely!
So, tap a wire off of that headlight hot wire at the switch. It is important that you do it at this switch, because from there the line goes to the low beam/high beam switch, and if you get into the circuit after that point, your lights will open on one setting & close on the other, not good...
So tap a new wire off of the "hot when headlights are on" wire, and connect the other end to the 'hot' side of that pod-motor-relay that we discussed in the original post. Then take the original wire that was connected to the relay, and insulate the exposed plug on it (electrical tape works, but I would wrap it several times & put a ziptie around the tape so it won't come loose with age)...
What this mod would do is: when the headlight power switch is "off", the pods are closed. When the switch is in the center position, the parking lights are on and the pods stay closed. But when you turn the switch all the way to "headlights on", the wire you installed goes 'hot', sending the signal to the pod-motor-relay, which energizes and raises the pods!
As long as the low or hi beams are on the pods would be open. As soon as you shut the headlights off, even if only back to parks, the "headlights on" wire goes 'cold', opening the motor relay & the pods would close.
This way you need not install any extra switches. I still prefer the extra switch, but it is simply a matter of personal choice...
Let me know if you decide to try it! -Mac.
kmead
Old enough to know better
Here is Bob Browns description, sadly the photos are gone:
With this INSERTABLE headlight Pod Control.
How many of you have asked: Why do the Headlight Pods go up with just the running lights on?"
Is it so you could flash on-coming traffic to warn of speed traps? HaHa!
I've asked that same question and thought it'd be nice if I could drive with the running lights
on (only) with headlights in the DOWN position. Why have them up when they're not on?
I've seen topics on this subject in past, and the one I recall noted removing a wire at the back
of the fuse panel and controlling the pod by a switch, but nothing that would run it automatically
and nothing that would give you a CHOICE.
Necessity (desire in this case) is the mother of invention, so I thought I'd see if it was possible
to make up a "plug in" modification that would give me this control.
Lucky for me (and you?) it's possible. The hardest part is making the adapter, but once made it
plugs right into your existing late model fuse panel. No mess, no fuss! Here's what the finished adapter
looks like:
This insert able mod was designed for LATE model X19's but can be retrofit to the earlier models.
All you need to do is locate the fuse that powers the headlights and tap the power from that source.
In my case, I made a simple EXTENSION for the fuse and grabbed power from the fused side. Any side will
do but the "cold" side is best if the circuit shorts out for any particular reason.
Here's how it works:
When you switch on your Running lights, the running lights come ON and the Pods STAY DOWN.
When you switch on your Headlights, the Pods GO UP. Simple, and the way it should be!
When you switch off your headlights, the Pods stay up.
When you PULL on your Hi/Lo beam Steering Console switch, your headlights will flash.
When you turn your headlight switch to off (completely) the Pods will go down again as normal.
An override switch was added to the assembly to allow the pods to go up when the running lights are on.
(to operate as originally wired from the factory)
Theory of operation is just as simple... (refer to the schematic)
A Relay EXTENSION is made for Relay E2, pin-for-pin.
The power pin (that feeds the "Travel UP" side of the pods relay (E2 Pin 30) is split (or cut).
This wire is marked RED in the schematic.
A simple switch (i.e. a center console switch) reconnects the split to override the circuit.
A simple relay is tied parallel with the center console switch, controlled by the Hi/Lo beam headlightcircuit.
When power goes to the headlights, it will close Bosch Relay #2, complete the circuit (for E2 Pin 30)
and allow the pods to rise. Otherwise, the circuit remains open, and the pods can only go down. (or
stay down) Simple enough!
Here's the Schematic: (sorry about the picture size Folks!
Notes:
I had to destroy a relay in order to make a plug. They're probably available somewhere, but for $3, I thought
I'd save the hassle of trying to find one. I mounted the "extended fuse" (the headlamp power tap) in
the E2 Relay extension plug for an uncluttered place to locate it. The fuse can go pretty-much anywhere
you want it.
Nicest part about all this: I can unplug this adaptation and go back to stock with nobody knowing the wiser.
But why?
Here's a picture of what it looks like installed. You barely notice its there.
And last, a picture of the switch arrangement on my console.
Hope you like it!
Bob Brown
With this INSERTABLE headlight Pod Control.
How many of you have asked: Why do the Headlight Pods go up with just the running lights on?"
Is it so you could flash on-coming traffic to warn of speed traps? HaHa!
I've asked that same question and thought it'd be nice if I could drive with the running lights
on (only) with headlights in the DOWN position. Why have them up when they're not on?
I've seen topics on this subject in past, and the one I recall noted removing a wire at the back
of the fuse panel and controlling the pod by a switch, but nothing that would run it automatically
and nothing that would give you a CHOICE.
Necessity (desire in this case) is the mother of invention, so I thought I'd see if it was possible
to make up a "plug in" modification that would give me this control.
Lucky for me (and you?) it's possible. The hardest part is making the adapter, but once made it
plugs right into your existing late model fuse panel. No mess, no fuss! Here's what the finished adapter
looks like:
This insert able mod was designed for LATE model X19's but can be retrofit to the earlier models.
All you need to do is locate the fuse that powers the headlights and tap the power from that source.
In my case, I made a simple EXTENSION for the fuse and grabbed power from the fused side. Any side will
do but the "cold" side is best if the circuit shorts out for any particular reason.
Here's how it works:
When you switch on your Running lights, the running lights come ON and the Pods STAY DOWN.
When you switch on your Headlights, the Pods GO UP. Simple, and the way it should be!
When you switch off your headlights, the Pods stay up.
When you PULL on your Hi/Lo beam Steering Console switch, your headlights will flash.
When you turn your headlight switch to off (completely) the Pods will go down again as normal.
An override switch was added to the assembly to allow the pods to go up when the running lights are on.
(to operate as originally wired from the factory)
Theory of operation is just as simple... (refer to the schematic)
A Relay EXTENSION is made for Relay E2, pin-for-pin.
The power pin (that feeds the "Travel UP" side of the pods relay (E2 Pin 30) is split (or cut).
This wire is marked RED in the schematic.
A simple switch (i.e. a center console switch) reconnects the split to override the circuit.
A simple relay is tied parallel with the center console switch, controlled by the Hi/Lo beam headlightcircuit.
When power goes to the headlights, it will close Bosch Relay #2, complete the circuit (for E2 Pin 30)
and allow the pods to rise. Otherwise, the circuit remains open, and the pods can only go down. (or
stay down) Simple enough!
Here's the Schematic: (sorry about the picture size Folks!
Notes:
I had to destroy a relay in order to make a plug. They're probably available somewhere, but for $3, I thought
I'd save the hassle of trying to find one. I mounted the "extended fuse" (the headlamp power tap) in
the E2 Relay extension plug for an uncluttered place to locate it. The fuse can go pretty-much anywhere
you want it.
Nicest part about all this: I can unplug this adaptation and go back to stock with nobody knowing the wiser.
But why?
Here's a picture of what it looks like installed. You barely notice its there.
And last, a picture of the switch arrangement on my console.
Hope you like it!
Bob Brown
Last edited:
Here is a download link to the PDF file containing the entire post.
Enjoy!
Take control of your Headlight Pods.pdf
Enjoy!
Take control of your Headlight Pods.pdf
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Thank you Bob, that's perfect.