Help! Lost Socket in Flywheel Area

AKimball92

AKimball92

True Classic
Help!

I really wanted to start the engine for the first time today but dropped a socket into the flywheel viewport :mad::mad::mad:. Is there anything I can do to get that socket back without pulling the transmission apart from the engine? Can the shield be removed underneath to get access to the flywheel area? I think I could support the engine and trans via jack-stands and remove the cross member, and cover? I cannot remember the order of operations required for that shield. I will have to do some digging.

Can the transmission be removed without dropping the engine? Can the half-shafts stay in place so i don't need to drain the trans fluid in order to do this? This is a 4 speed transmission.

Has anyone made a cover for that hole so this wont happen again?
 
You might get lucky and be able to loosen the bottom part of the lower cover. If gravity is your friend and the socket is small enough, you might find it on the bottom. If that doesn't work, you might be able to back the trans off the engine enough (both being properly supported) without removing it to drop the socket. I think there may be enough travel in the driver's side Tripode joint that you won't have to mess with the axles or suspension. How big is the socket?

The car originally shipped with a rubber plug that fit the hole. Mine made it into the 90s before it got lost. I don't know if replacements are available but you could probably cut something to fit. For a while, I just put a piece of duct tape over it. Probably do the same thing again unless a replacement turns up.
 
AKimball92 said:
Help!

I really wanted to start the engine for the first time today but dropped a socket into the flywheel viewport :mad::mad::mad:. Is there anything I can do to get that socket back without pulling the transmission apart from the engine? Can the shield be removed underneath to get access to the flywheel area? I think I could support the engine and trans via jack-stands and remove the cross member, and cover? I cannot remember the order of operations required for that shield. I will have to do some digging.

Can the transmission be removed without dropping the engine? Can the half-shafts stay in place so i don't need to drain the trans fluid in order to do this? This is a 4 speed transmission.

Has anyone made a cover for that hole so this wont happen again?
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A socket dropping through the opening with the flywheel timing marks will end up on the clutch side of the flywheel, so taking off shields etc. may not do much good. Perhaps you could remove the starter and try to fish around with a magnet taped to a coat hanger?
 
Not that it helps you right now, but ChrisO has the covers listed on his page.

What size is the socket? Hopefully not too small.

Do you have an endoscope you can try to snake into the same hole? If you can spot the socket, you may be able to figure a way to pull it out.

With any luck, it looks like the socket might fall on the outside of the flywheel and clutch assemblies, then maybe settle to that lowest depression straight below the splined shaft. Maybe. If you can't see anything from the top view port, perhaps pull the starter and try to get a look from that opening?
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Unfortunately, it also looks like there are a few places for the socket to get hung up in there. :(
 
Crisis adverted!!! :oops::eek::D I first started with a magnet through the top. No luck. Then posted here, went outside and checked the book. I learned that shield Can indeed come off without separating the trans from engine. I supported the engine, removed the cross member, mount, and cover. Nothing! :eek: I fished a magnet through there, nothing!! :eek::confused: Thought to rotate the engine a few times from the crank pulley bolt so I put the engine trans in neutral... click click click. He socket dropped! Crawled under and wallah!! The socket was sitting just nicely on the bottom little cupped area. :D

Thanks everyone for the help. I’ll be ordering one of those covers. I got lucky this time with a m7 or 8 socket trying to tighten a hose clamp.
 
I hadn't given it much thought until now, but having a cover over that "timing" port would be good. As mentioned, the original ones always seem to be missing.
Not only to avoid Andrew's predicament, but also to help keep water and dirt out. I realize the clutch area isn't sealed (even with a cover on the opening) but it would help to reduce the amount that gets in. Especially with the bottom cover retaining anything that goes into the clutch/flywheel cavity; both of mine were pretty full of gunk when I split the trans from the engines. Although most of that was likely from clutch material and leaking lube. Still, seems like a good idea to cover the hole.
 
Has anyone found a source for those covers (Actually, they are rectangular rubber plugs)? If they are readily available, I wouldn't mind getting rid of my duct tape cover, but I've never thought to look for one of those plugs. I recall that when the original got old, you had to be careful not to push it through into the bellhousing.
 
I put a fiatplus link in my earlier response, so check with ChrisO to see if he has them in stock.
 
I wonder if Henks version is a new rubber composite or NOS style and makeup. A NOS rubber plug might not be durable enough 20-40 years later. I will order one either way but if it does not hold up, I think my friend will be able to 3D print something that will work I'm sure.
 
AKimball92 said:
I wonder if Henks version is a new rubber composite or NOS style and makeup. A NOS rubber plug might not be durable enough 20-40 years later. I will order one either way but if it does not hold up, I think my friend will be able to 3D print something that will work I'm sure.
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Let us know if you decide to try 3D printing the part. I had that idea too, but the brief reading I did on the subject indicated standard 3D printing materials won't hold up to engine heat. I bet your buddy knows way more about the subject than I do, so I am interested in the thinking of someone "in the know" on current 3D printing.
 
AKimball92 said:
I think my friend will be able to 3D print something that will work I'm sure.
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JimD said:
I had that idea too, but the brief reading I did on the subject indicated standard 3D printing materials won't hold up to engine heat.
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3D printing was my first thought also. I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject but I've heard there are many different materials available for 3D printing now, including all sorts of composites and even metals. So there should be something that would work. Not sure how it will compare to the ones already available from some vendors.

Looks like these are still available from Fiat Plus (linked earlier in this thread) , Eurosport (but currently out of stock), X1/9 Spares, X1/9 Parts Holland (although I don't have Hink's temporary site saved so I can't check to confirm), and maybe others? However I'm not certain of the correct part number. One site lists it as 4357673, but that number does not come up anywhere else. Anyone have a different number for it?
 
The one on my 77 is feels like a hard plastic but who knows, it might have been originally a soft rubber and just cooked with age.
 
The design of the original plug was not that great to begin with. I have personally seen several instances of these getting reinstalled too far and they end up taking the same journey as Andrew's socket. This is particularly true if they are old because the thin lip around the edge that is supposed to keep the plug from falling through gets too fragile and it takes very little force to push it too far. The best solution I have seen was a rubber eraser jammed over the hole.
 
I made one from the largest round rubber plug Lowe's sells. First cut it with a hacksaw and used the grinder and rasps to shape notches that hold it in place. Goes in and comes out with difficulty, which is how I like it.
 
Fiatfiend said:
I made one from the largest round rubber plug Lowe's sells. First cut it with a hacksaw and used the grinder and rasps to shape notches that hold it in place. Goes in and comes out with difficulty, which is how I like it.
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I made a rubber pad for my jack in much the same way. I think the durometer was a little much for a hack saw. I learned that my belt sander was the best tool to shape the puck how I wanted it. I'll have to take a look at Lowes next time I'm there and get my creative juices flowing.
 
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