I think my starter is on the way out....

[79X19]

I’ve been test driving my car for longer and longer distances to see how it responds. After sitting for three year’s I want to be sure she’s back and capable of an hour or so drive. So far so good. Until today. Went to Start her up for a longer drive and the starter just hummed. Tried it many times with the same sound until she engaged out of the blue and the motor started. A few weeks ago same thing happened but I thought it was the battery because after charging the starter engaged first time after charging. This time the battery was fully charged so I think the starter is going. Would like some feedback on this. If it is the starter is it reparable/rebuildable or is it best to just get a new one?

 

[ianlawson]

Hmmm, it may pay to have a look at the starter solenoid!
Sounds to me like it may be a bit "dodgy"!

cheers, IanL - NZ

 

[Chris in Canada]

I’ve been test driving my car for longer and longer distances to see how it responds. After sitting for three year’s I want to be sure she’s back and capable of an hour or so drive. So far so good. Until today. Went to Start her up for a longer drive and the starter just hummed. Tried it many times with the same sound until she engaged out of the blue and the motor started. A few weeks ago same thing happened but I thought it was the battery because after charging the starter engaged first time after charging. This time the battery was fully charged so I think the starter is going. Would like some feedback on this. If it is the starter is it reparable/rebuildable or is it best to just get a new one?

Make sure you load test the battery, don’t just charge it. Check your grounds, then look at the starter. Nothing wrong with a rebuild as long as it was done right!

 

[dllubin]

I recently refurbished my starter and found it not to be very difficult or time consuming. Total cost was under $10 (new brushes), and most of the work was cleaning the amazing amount of dirt/grease that falls in there. I also chucked up the armature in a drill and resurfaced the commutator lightly with 600 grit. It went from barely working before to just like new when the work was complete.

 

[79X19]

So I removed the starter after talking with Matt at MwB. He told me that there are two options for starters on the x. It could have come with a Bosch or a Marelli so I couldn’t just order the replacement solenoid without first removing it. Of all the jobs I’ve done...pedal box, accelerator cable, coolant tubes this one was a pain in the ass as well. Nothing easy on this car. The bolt behind the rubber coolant hose was a bitch to get at!! Had to remove the air cleaner assembly to get at it. From below had to remove the cover over the fuel line to the fuel pump. It turned out it was a marelli so I’m going to order the solenoid and spend an afternoon, I’m sure, learning how to swear in Italian all over again when installing it.

 

[JimD]

Keep at it. Just a warning that if you don't get it going by Dec 31st you will need to modify that last line in your signature to read "202???". I avoid these issues by never setting a completion date.

 

[79X19]

LOL Jim D. You’re 100% correct I put the x before the horse on that one for sure!

 

[DanielForest]

I hope you didn't change your starter for no reason. On my cars, each time the starter act like giving up and suddenly work, it was a problem with the ignition switch, solve with the famous Brown Wire Mod. So if your new starter is not working sometimes, that may be the problem...Unless you already had the BWM.

 

[kmead]

I found removing the fasteners and so on from underneath was much easier. It is closer to the bottom of the engine bay than it is to the top after all.

I need to take mine out of the ‘85 to lube the shaft as it tends to stick in the out position. Fine when warm, sticks when cold.

To save your ignition switch I would suggest not the brown wire mod but a starter relay instead. The relay can live in the tire well or if its a waterproof relay in the engine bay.

Taking load off the ignition switch is a very good thing.

 

[dllubin]

Once you get the starter out, it might be a good idea to put 12V across the solenoid to see if it works or not. If it reacts sluggishly, it could also mean that the inside of the starter assembly is full of dirt and grease that could inhibit starter operation. That is one of the dirtiest locations on the car and I was impressed with how much crap came out of mine when I refurbished it.

 

[79X19]

Daniel thanks for the suggestions. I have completed the brown wire mod under supervision from Bob Brown himself. Also checked the ground wire from the transmission to the back of the car and that was sound. Replaced the ignition switch recently so everything was up to snuff. The battery is less than a year old and fully charged. The way it’s behaving is classic solenoid failure. I turn the key three or four times each time hearing a spinning noise then on the next time the starter kicks in. Has been doing this just recently since I’ve been driving it. I plan on testing the starter on the bench tomorrow to confirm.

 

[LarryC]

I eliminated the whole starter not starting scenario with (a) a gear reduction starter, and (b) a relay for the starter that applies direct battery voltage to the solenoid when the key is in "start". That would be my recommendation for a "permanent" fix.

 

[Mark]

I’ll second that. One of those things I do to all my cars.

I eliminated the whole starter not starting scenario with (a) a gear reduction starter, and (b) a relay for the starter that applies direct battery voltage to the solenoid when the key is in "start". That would be my recommendation for a "permanent" fix.

 

[Jimmy II]

I would suggest you search on HARD START RELAY and find the discussion started by "Budgetzagato". There is a high quality, low cost relay kit you can buy on the net that powers the solenoid from the thick starter wire instead of the skinny brown wire via the ignition switch. It's easy to install and there is no apparent down side of adding it, but there are benefits. It doesn't fix a bad starter or solenoid, but it does assure a good supply of electricity to the solenoid and may either clear your symptoms or help you decide what is failing.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I'll second (third, forth, ??) the others about adding a relay to the starter solenoid (which is itself a relay), as opposed to the brown wire mod (BWM). They are easily confused and often mislabeled, so you might already have done it. But this directly addresses the starter as opposed to the load through the ignition switch (which is also a great thing to do - as you have).

For what's it worth I'll also add a recent experience of mine. Acquired a X, got it home, but then nothing happened when trying to crank it. Checked everything and narrowed it down to the starter. Pulled it (I agree, it is a bitch to get to with the coolant hoses in the way. One of the hoses was almost worn through at the point where it rubbed the starter). Further testing indicated it was the solenoid (like Don said, direct current to the starter motor and it spun). I did not have a replacement solenoid handy and really needed to get it running so I could move the car. Took the solenoid off, followed a write up on the forum and cleaned the contacts (Don is right again, amazing how much crud accumulates inside them...and this was only the solenoid). Worked perfect. The next time I will also open the motor to clean it as well (did not have the time on this occasion).

 

[EricH]

The 1300 hoses are a bit less in the way than the 1500 hoses, but either way you get the starter out by removing the driver-side wheel which gives you a straight shot at the bolts. Once the bolts are out the starter comes out from below.

 

[79X19]

Got the starter on the bench and tested it. Solenoid is good. Motor is good. The gear hangs up and doesn’t retract. I push it in by hand and it operates ok for a few tests then hangs up again. Called Matt and he diagnosed the problem as a bad starter gear assembly. I dissembled the starter and it was full of dust dirt and carbon dust. All the internals were gummy as any grease has long since decayed into a sap like substance. I’ll give it a full cleaning lube up areas that need it and wait for the replacement part.

 

[dllubin]

You might want to check the brushes while you have it apart. Mine were just about gone at 80K. Under $10 on eBay and easy to install. The cleanup seemed to result in the starter operating much more briskly. I'm sure it runs much cooler now as well.

 

[79X19]

Got the part from Matt. Reassembled the starter. All cleaned and lubricated. Tested it on the bench as she’s a go! Now I hope all is well with the electrics.