Interesting reading material PBS "Project X1/9"

motoTrooper said:
Hey all, while on the brain trail of Fiat/Lancia suspension design, I stumbled onto this site which had a copy of "Project X1/9". I enjoyed reading about the modifications they undertook which gave me food for thought on my build.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/194781504/Project-x19-Pbs
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I tought everybody already has this pdf file. Not sure where I got it, looks like that not there below, but on this webpage are more interesting info http://x19gr.50webs.com/books.htm
 
I think I still have an original hard copy of the "Project X1/9" manual somewhere. Its good reading but there are a few issues. The work is somewhat dated and they did make a critical error in their raising of the suspension pickup points compromising the anti-dive/anti-squat geometry. Consequently, the car was terrible under braking.
 
I was wondering what tradeoffs would occur from raising the pickup points. Hoped I hadn't boned myself by keeping things stock.:)
 
What are you going to do with the car?

There are reasons why you might want to raise the pickups. A big one is to correct the roll center height, lower the chassis and accommodate a taller (15"?) wheel and tire. PBS just did a poor job of execution.

Before I built the MR2 I was considering building my X1/9 for D Prepared. I did a thorough analysis of what work would be required to make the chassis competitive. I had a whole plan worked out but the decision to go with the MR2 meant it was stillborn.
 
No racing plans yet. Just a high(er) performance road car and (hopeful)track day exploitation. I do have 15" wheels and want to lower the Scorpion appropos. Going from offroad high to not crazy low but useful low. Have you seen my project videos?
 
Sorry, haven't seen your videos. Link?

No need to relocate the pickups for any road car. You should be fine.

I should note that my MR2 really can't go any lower. Even on the very stiff springs that it has it will hit the front crossmember under braking. There is a practical limit even on a racecar.
 
Hmmm... looks like you have done some nice work. I think you'll be fine with the standard suspension's capabilities but you would certainly want to do things like box the rear control arms given that you are more than doubling the original engine's power.

Given the amount of work you have done it wouldn't have been that big a deal to fabricate your own tubular control arms to include a replaceable ball joint and upgrade the upgrights (hub carriers) to a modern unit with modern brakes and stronger bearings. That would also provide for a more modern strut housing with more options for performance struts. I have done this on an X1/9 and it worked quite nicely.

I always find people's choices for engine swaps to be interesting. My choices are always to find an engine that has the same characteristics that endeared me to the car to begin with. In the case of the Scorpion that would be a rev happy DOHC 4, like a K20 or 2ZZ. I was never really a fan of the 914 because of its rather dull engines, the 914/6 an exception. Subies have never captured my interest and that is certainly my bias. Not that they aren't good cars with good engines and make good power but to my taste they lack the visceral feedback that gave the car its personality. I don't mean to detract from your build, its great and I am sure the results will be spectacular given the engine's performance. Like a friend of mine is fond of saying: Baskin-Robbins makes 31 flavors because not everybody likes Chocolate and Vanilla.
 
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Thank you for the comments and the constructive criticism. I appreciate the advice and your opinions. I am initially interested in keeping things mostly stock(ish) with modern upgrades for safety and performance. As I have yet to truly experience the dynamics of these little mid-engined cars (including the X1/9), I wanted to get a basis from which to evolve the car. Also since I am essentially working out of my driveway I still do not have access to machine tools or shop space to go crazy with the project.

I had a 1973 Porsche 911S decades ago and I still love the character of that engine. From all the information I've garnered, the Subaru SVX flat 6 has much of that character with the power of the 3.6 964 without the cost penalty. Setup with a manual transmission it appears to be a rev happy willing powerplant, at least that is the idea behind this. My ice cream taste leans towards Rocky Road which hopefully isn't what I've set myself up for.;)
 
motoTrooper said:
Thank you for the comments and the constructive criticism. I appreciate the advice and your opinions. I am initially interested in keeping things mostly stock(ish) with modern upgrades for safety and performance. As I have yet to truly experience the dynamics of these little mid-engined cars (including the X1/9), I wanted to get a basis from which to evolve the car. Also since I am essentially working out of my driveway I still do not have access to machine tools or shop space to go crazy with the project.

I had a 1973 Porsche 911S decades ago and I still love the character of that engine. From all the information I've garnered, the Subaru SVX flat 6 has much of that character with the power of the 3.6 964 without the cost penalty. Setup with a manual transmission it appears to be a rev happy willing powerplant, at least that is the idea behind this. My ice cream taste leans towards Rocky Road which hopefully isn't what I've set myself up for.;)
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I did notice your work space. But then you are in California so its not like me having to wear layers to stay warm in my garage 5 months out of the year. When I started I had yard sale tools, worked in my apartment parking lot, or my sister's shed, and thought that I had made a great leap in capability when I bought a hack saw and a bench grinder. It was years before I could afford a welder. And I still use that same 2nd had Craftsman wire mig.

I do like the Porsche flat 6. I do a lot of work with Porsches and am fond of many including the current generation 3.6. Its an amazing engine.

Interesting that you haven't driven a Scorpion or X1/9. I fell in love with the X the first 3rd gear sweeper I ever drove one through. It was a revelation. I have built a number of very fast X1/9 but always find myself coming home to the little SOHC motor. Its a great motor, if not very powerful, which really does make the car what it is. As I tell Porsche Turbo owners, anybody can drive a fast car fast. It takes great skill to drive a slow car fast. Its also very rewarding. That said, I have driven a number of K20 powered X1/9s and love the super car aura. Very cool. I think your finished car will be great.
 
Ah yes, the art of driving (and being able to, with some thoughtful improvements) drive a slow car fast is part of the attraction of all of these cars! The fact that they all handle relatively well out of the box doesn't hurt either.
 
I drove a Scorpion once, slowly around a few blocks in San Francisco. The brakes were so wooden that I didn't want to go further downhill...

I'd love to spend some time in a well sorted stock(ish) X1/9 or Scorpion. I have wonderful memories of my old '78 Alfa Spider Veloce. I've never been a huge horsepower junkie and most of my motorcycles are 400cc or smaller (except the '84 Harley which is a 1000 but has the performance of a 400. I do have an affinity for lightness and handling over outright power. May have a basis in too many speeding tickets in my youth.
 
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