KYB rear shocks for 1977 X1/9

[Jeff Fischer]

Hi All

I am looking at buying new rear KYB shocks for my 77 X1/9. I have been to the vendor sites and I see shocks for later models but these can be used for a 77. The notes on the product say that I can drill a larger hole or buy new mounts that will fit on the 77. Has anyone done this or do you have any recommendations on what I should do.

Thx Jeff

 

[carl]

I bought new KYB struts from my buddy who had them on his Bertone and they bolted right on to my 77. They were complete with springs and mounts from the Bertone.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

KYB only offers one choice of new struts for the X. And there are very few (any?) other choices of new struts for them. So you don't have many options.

If I recall correctly, on the rear KYB's it is the top mount (or the attachment to it) that is different. I don't recall what year they changed ('79?). So you can either use the other style top mount or make some mods to use your originals. Perhaps the ones Carl got - with top everything attached - already had the newer style ones? Others will offer the exact details I'm sure. But it is easy to make them work on your car.

I have a brand new complete set (fronts and rears) of KYB struts available. Right after I bought them I came across some new old stock Konis, so the KYB's were never mounted or used, they are still in the boxes. I do not need them so send me a message if you are interested. I'll sell them for less than new prices.

 

[Jeff Fischer]

KYB only offers one choice of new struts for the X. And there are very few (any?) other choices of new struts for them. So you don't have many options.

If I recall correctly, on the rear KYB's it is the top mount (or the attachment to it) that is different. I don't recall what year they changed ('79?). So you can either use the other style top mount or make some mods to use your originals. Perhaps the ones Carl got - with top everything attached - already had the newer style ones? Others will offer the exact details I'm sure. But it is easy to make them work on your car.

I have a brand new complete set (fronts and rears) of KYB struts available. Right after I bought them I came across some new old stock Konis, so the KYB's were never mounted or used, they are still in the boxes. I do not need them so send me a message if you are interested. I'll sell them for less than new prices.

Hey Jeff
Thx for the information on the struts. Let me know what you want for the 4 of them and where you are located so I can figure out the cost of delivery

Thx Jeff

 

[Jeff Fischer]

I bought new KYB struts from my buddy who had them on his Bertone and they bolted right on to my 77. They were complete with springs and mounts from the Bertone.

Hey Carl

Thx for the comment on my post, I believe after talking to Dr. jeff that the solution with the newer KYB is to buy the top mount that came with the later models

Jeff

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Jeff, please verify exactly what it is that's needed to fit KYB's on the earlier rear suspensions. I know many have done it and it isn't difficult, but I don't recall for sure what items are necessary to be replaced. It has been discussed here in the past. See if you can find any of those old threads, and I'll do the same.

On the MWB site it says:
"Note: Can be directly applied to 1973-79 Fiat X1/9s if original upper spring bump stop/perch and cone component is replaced with a 1980-88 style one-piece assembly."

My '79 has the same components as my '85 so I'm not certain exactly what is needed. I suspect the quote above should say "1973-1978" and "1979-88".

What I refer to as the 'mount' is the part that bolts to the body, and the strut rests under it. I'm sure it's not the part that's needed because I think they are all the same:

On the MWB site they show these two upper spring perches:
Early type...

Late type:

It must be something to do with these. I'll send a message to your "in box" about the struts I have.

 

[dllubin]

Jeff, please verify exactly what it is that's needed to fit KYB's on the earlier rear suspensions. I know many have done it and it isn't difficult, but I don't recall for sure what items are necessary to be replaced. It has been discussed here in the past. See if you can find any of those old threads, and I'll do the same.

On the MWB site it says:
"Note: Can be directly applied to 1973-79 Fiat X1/9s if original upper spring bump stop/perch and cone component is replaced with a 1980-88 style one-piece assembly."

My '79 has the same components as my '85 so I'm not certain exactly what is needed. I suspect the quote above should say "1973-1978" and "1979-88".

What I refer to as the 'mount' is the part that bolts to the body, and the strut rests under it. I'm sure it's not the part that's needed because I think they are all the same:
View attachment 16722

On the MWB site they show these two upper spring perches:
Early type...
View attachment 16724
Late type:
View attachment 16725
It must be something to do with these. I'll send a message to your "in box" about the struts I have.

I wonder how late the late types are? My 74 came from the factory with the late types. I rebuilt them in the 80s with KYB gas inserts.

 

[MikeHynes]

Hi All

I am looking at buying new rear KYB shocks for my 77 X1/9. I have been to the vendor sites and I see shocks for later models but these can be used for a 77. The notes on the product say that I can drill a larger hole or buy new mounts that will fit on the 77. Has anyone done this or do you have any recommendations on what I should do.

Thx Jeff

One difference between the early rear struts and the later rear struts is the mounting bracket at the bottom. The later struts have increased clearance for the CV joint. With everything else equal, that would lift the rear of the car just a bit.
FWIW I've never had an issue mounting an early strut on a later car, and of course you wouldn't have a clearance issue mounting a late strut on an early car as long as the correct top mount is used. I think the top of the strut rod has a different shape/diameter between the early and late strut, but if the corresponding mounting hardware is used they are interchangeable.

 

[Jeff Fischer]

One difference between the early rear struts and the later rear struts is the mounting bracket at the bottom. The later struts have increased clearance for the CV joint. With everything else equal, that would lift the rear of the car just a bit.
FWIW I've never had an issue mounting an early strut on a later car, and of course you wouldn't have a clearance issue mounting a late strut on an early car as long as the correct top mount is used. I think the top of the strut rod has a different shape/diameter between the early and late strut, but if the corresponding mounting hardware is used they are interchangeable.

Hi Mike

Thx for the post, I will order a couple of top mounts along with the shocks. Nice to have people like you to bounce questions about the car

Thx Jeff

 

[Jeff Fischer]

Jeff, please verify exactly what it is that's needed to fit KYB's on the earlier rear suspensions. I know many have done it and it isn't difficult, but I don't recall for sure what items are necessary to be replaced. It has been discussed here in the past. See if you can find any of those old threads, and I'll do the same.

On the MWB site it says:
"Note: Can be directly applied to 1973-79 Fiat X1/9s if original upper spring bump stop/perch and cone component is replaced with a 1980-88 style one-piece assembly."

My '79 has the same components as my '85 so I'm not certain exactly what is needed. I suspect the quote above should say "1973-1978" and "1979-88".

What I refer to as the 'mount' is the part that bolts to the body, and the strut rests under it. I'm sure it's not the part that's needed because I think they are all the same:
View attachment 16722

On the MWB site they show these two upper spring perches:
Early type...
View attachment 16724
Late type:
View attachment 16725
It must be something to do with these. I'll send a message to your "in box" about the struts I have.

Jeff, please verify exactly what it is that's needed to fit KYB's on the earlier rear suspensions. I know many have done it and it isn't difficult, but I don't recall for sure what items are necessary to be replaced. It has been discussed here in the past. See if you can find any of those old threads, and I'll do the same.

On the MWB site it says:
"Note: Can be directly applied to 1973-79 Fiat X1/9s if original upper spring bump stop/perch and cone component is replaced with a 1980-88 style one-piece assembly."

My '79 has the same components as my '85 so I'm not certain exactly what is needed. I suspect the quote above should say "1973-1978" and "1979-88".

What I refer to as the 'mount' is the part that bolts to the body, and the strut rests under it. I'm sure it's not the part that's needed because I think they are all the same:
View attachment 16722

On the MWB site they show these two upper spring perches:
Early type...
View attachment 16724
Late type:
View attachment 16725
It must be something to do with these. I'll send a message to your "in box" about the struts I have.

Hi there Dr. Jeff

Thx for this, I thought they were talking about the top mount at MWB but it looks like the spring perches is what I need.

Thx jeff

 

[Jeff Fischer]

I wonder how late the late types are? My 74 came from the factory with the late types. I rebuilt them in the 80s with KYB gas inserts.

Thx for the info, Will need to take the old ones off to figure this out

Jeff

 

[Dr.Jeff]

From what I understand the only possible change for the rear KYB's is the upper attachment. I think it is the upper spring perch, not the mount. Interesting that dllubin's '74 did not require any changes to mount them. He is the original owner so there hasn't been any changes to it. However it is possible the KYB's he mounted were not what they currently sell. KYB used to offer different models, both in terms of design (high vs low pressure) and mounting (early and late X applications).
I'll see if I can find any of the old threads about this.

 

[dllubin]

From what I understand the only possible change for the rear KYB's is the upper attachment. I think it is the upper spring perch, not the mount. Interesting that dllubin's '74 did not require any changes to mount them. He is the original owner so there hasn't been any changes to it. However it is possible the KYB's he mounted were not what they currently sell. KYB used to offer different models, both in terms of design (high vs low pressure) and mounting (early and late X applications).
I'll see if I can find any of the old threads about this.

I used the gas inserts so you basically take all the guts out and use the original strut housing, mounts, etc.

I don't think they have made them in quite a while but they worked real well.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I found an older thread that includes a little insight. I sent you messages - check your 'in-box'.

It isn't the "mount", but the upper spring perch. Apparently there is a difference in diameter between the top of the shaft and the hole in the perch. So either modify things to make up the difference in diameter. Or better yet, get the later style top spring perches. They will be a direct fit with the KYB's on your early car.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I used the gas insert

Ya, those were offered in both early and late fittments. So you had the correct ones for your year, and therefore no issue. Unfortunately they no longer make those. They also stopped making the Dr.DeCarbon type high-pressure units for the X. They were the same design as Bilsteins for a fraction of the price. Now they only offer one choice and it requires the early cars to use later type spring perches. Sadly there are no other good choices for new struts to fit the X.

 

[MikeHynes]

Hi Mike

Thx for the post, I will order a couple of top mounts along with the shocks. Nice to have people like you to bounce questions about the car

Thx Jeff

The easy way to tell the difference between early and late rear struts is to look at the mounting bracket at the bottom. Early on left, late on right.

The mount on top is harder to see because you pretty much have to disassemble it. The early rear struts used the same hardware that the front struts use. Because the rear struts don't turn when the steering wheel is turned some of these parts are unnecessary. This is a layout of the parts that mount the top of the strut to the body on the early struts (front and rear).

These parts are not used on the late rear struts.

The reason the fiber washer and seal are not used is because they are needed to allow the front strut to turn. The rears don't turn, so the late rear struts were modified to eliminate them. The late struts don't need a separate cone because it is built into the upper spring mount.
The early top spring mount is on the left, the late top spring mount with the built in cone is on the right.

The separate cone mounts on the shaft as below on the early struts.

The late strut top spring mount doesn't use the separate cone so the top of the shafts are different. The early strut rod is on top.

Bottom line - either the early or late strut will mount just fine at the top, as long as all the proper parts are used.
In my experience either the early or late strut will also work on the bottom because I have always had enough clearance to the CV joint. YMMV
(Maybe Fiat made the change not to allow more clearance, but to get the rear higher for bumper laws? Who knows?)

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Mike, nice explanation - thanks.

Unfortunately they no longer offer any choice on the lower mounts; they are all the same as the later style, which fits any year so no problem. Therefore it comes down to your explanation of the top attachments. And this pic you posted is the key:

Only the later end is offered, and that is why either the newer parts are needed (upper spring perch assembly) or the old ones opened up to allow the larger diameter shaft to pass through.

 

[dllubin]

The easy way to tell the difference between early and late rear struts is to look at the mounting bracket at the bottom. Early on left, late on right.
View attachment 16767
The mount on top is harder to see because you pretty much have to disassemble it. The early rear struts used the same hardware that the front struts use. Because the rear struts don't turn when the steering wheel is turned some of these parts are unnecessary. This is a layout of the parts that mount the top of the strut to the body on the early struts (front and rear).
View attachment 16769
These parts are not used on the late rear struts.
View attachment 16770
The reason the fiber washer and seal are not used is because they are needed to allow the front strut to turn. The rears don't turn, so the late rear struts were modified to eliminate them. The late struts don't need a separate cone because it is built into the upper spring mount.
The early top spring mount is on the left, the late top spring mount with the built in cone is on the right.
View attachment 16771
The separate cone mounts on the shaft as below on the early struts.
View attachment 16772
The late strut top spring mount doesn't use the separate cone so the top of the shafts are different. The early strut rod is on top.
View attachment 16768
Bottom line - either the early or late strut will mount just fine at the top, as long as all the proper parts are used.
In my experience either the early or late strut will also work on the bottom because I have always had enough clearance to the CV joint. YMMV
(Maybe Fiat made the change not to allow more clearance, but to get the rear higher for bumper laws? Who knows?)

Good info! Looks like I have an early style after all which makes more sense.

 

[MSiege]

I am revitalizing this old post because I am putting rear KYBs back together on my '77. I'm following everything discussed and pictured above and I seem to have a mishmash of parts - old upper assembly, but new mounting brackets. There is very little threaded rod coming through at the top end of the upper mount. I have replaced the upper mount with those new, much more robust rubber bushings and the large washer because the old ones were literally deformed to a concave shape by wear and tear, and whatever torque value was used in mounting. This has reduced the length of the shaft available for the upper nut.

My questions - Is it ok if the nut and shaft are basically flush when tightened down? What's the torque value for that top nut and should it have a final tightening before the assembly and upper mount is bolted in or after? I can leave the spring compressor on while its being mounted, tighten the shaft and then remove the compressor. It's hard to hold the assembly to tighten the nut without using the mount for leverage. Without enough rod protruding, there's no way to use a wrench on the machined part of the rod at the top, against the tightening of the nut.

Thoughts on this would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[JimD]

I am revitalizing this old post because I am putting rear KYBs back together on my '77. I'm following everything discussed and pictured above and I seem to have a mishmash of parts - old upper assembly, but new mounting brackets. There is very little threaded rod coming through at the top end of the upper mount. I have replaced the upper mount with those new, much more robust rubber bushings and the large washer because the old ones were literally deformed to a concave shape by wear and tear, and whatever torque value was used in mounting. This has reduced the length of the shaft available for the upper nut.

My questions - Is it ok if the nut and shaft are basically flush when tightened down? What's the torque value for that top nut and should it have a final tightening before the assembly and upper mount is bolted in or after? I can leave the spring compressor on while its being mounted, tighten the shaft and then remove the compressor. It's hard to hold the assembly to tighten the nut without using the mount for leverage. Without enough rod protruding, there's no way to use a wrench on the machined part of the rod at the top, against the tightening of the nut.

Thoughts on this would be much appreciated, thanks.

Pictures would help.