Lightweight

:D
But then again, Fiat put the radiator in the front with really long tubes to connect it. So a long shaft from the starter may not be much different. 😄
However a gear reduction starter is lighter than the stock one. And really expensive.

I agree about the window winders vs sliders. Maybe if the windows were lightweight plexi then the slider might work. But I think the glass is too heavy to use sliders.
I wonder if the side windows could be made part of the top. So when the top is on you also have windows. But when the top is off you don't have windows. However that would require some sort of hoist to get it on and off the car, like a removable hardtop for a 124 Spider.

If I ever get around to building the 'Outlaw X' then I might consider removing all of the glass; completely eliminate the rear window and side windows, and replace the windshield with a 'frameless' half height plexi screen. The whole thing might look sort of like this:

View attachment 38314
plexi. well we are talking how to make it lighter. anyone know the weight of the windows? my car is a sunny day car, but leaving enough in case I get caught in rain, so plexi might work well seeing as the dang regulators have me yelling obscenities


Odie
 
plexi. well we are talking how to make it lighter
I recall someone working on that. The difficult part was the curve of the windows. I believe it is a bit of a complex curve shape (bows both top to bottom and front to back?). So either need to heat and mold it, or try what I recall them attempting; keep the plexi flat and make a new frame to fit it to the door. However I think that will be very difficult to make water/air tight (or even close to that). They also had an issue with it being too 'flexible', so a frame was needed around the entire perimeter to help support it. There was a picture with the side window "fixed" and a smaller sliding section within it (like a "peep hole"). Perhaps not practical for a road car. I would imagine the original glass could be used to mold the plexi to the same shape? Get it hot enough to form and let it droop over the glass. I made a windscreen for a road-racing motorcycle that way. Actually used a 5gal bucket as the form to get the curve.
 
Joe, Degasperous runs a 124 spider with no windshield (it was supposed to be his race car) on the street. He wears goggles. It too is a very fair weather car. Now he wants to install a windshield back on his car. Easy enough on a spider with a bolt on windshield but going without a windshield on an X is rather a permanent mod. I have slowly put stuff back on my X, the heater, a single windshield wiper and Hella fog lights that can be used as headlights in a pinch. You really have to decide how you plan to drive your stripped out X. I want to drive mine at least once a month and that dictated a heater. A wiper (I removed the passenger side) for just in case you get caught in a rain situation. I put the Hellas on originally as day time running lights as folks seem to always want to crash into me. Now that I have an NA Miata I almost never take the top off the X.
 
Joe, Degasperous runs a 124 spider with no windshield (it was supposed to be his race car) on the street. He wears goggles. It too is a very fair weather car. Now he wants to install a windshield back on his car. Easy enough on a spider with a bolt on windshield but going without a windshield on an X is rather a permanent mod. I have slowly put stuff back on my X, the heater, a single windshield wiper and Hella fog lights that can be used as headlights in a pinch. You really have to decide how you plan to drive your stripped out X. I want to drive mine at least once a month and that dictated a heater. A wiper (I removed the passenger side) for just in case you get caught in a rain situation. I put the Hellas on originally as day time running lights as folks seem to always want to crash into me. Now that I have an NA Miata I almost never take the top off the X.
Agreed. And like you I'll have to store this one outside, so no top is also a problem.

I keep going back and forth about it. But this particular X is the badly rusty one I've shown before; certainly not good enough condition to make into a "real" car, so it will otherwise get scrapped. That's why it might be fun to go 'the full monty' with the mods - something I've always had in the back of my mind to do....a true "roadster".

Due to the rust I'd have to cut away other places on the body to eliminate some of the worst areas; the rear apron/bottom corners, the fender arches, the lower nose, etc. So things like cheap generic flares to cover the trimmed arches, homemade front air dam to cover the nose, maybe a 'faux' diffuser to replace the removed rear lower section, etc. At that point removing the top and/or windshield really doesn't matter. Besides, the windshield wouldn't be removed (ala Joe's 124), but replaced with a partial one (but not as partial as most X race cars have).

Some (non)-inspirational pics....
Simple DIY airdam:
AICIpIK.jpg


Faux diffuser:
024 - Copy.jpg


Cheap universal flares:
611O8Kqu4lL._AC_SL1000_.jpg


And the same pic I showed for the windshield, but also the targa bar as well:
ferrari-250-p-2.jpg
 
Good show. About time someone made a rattier X than my rat. I assume you are following Steve Cs Lemons build. Never heard of a fiberglass targa section. Those of us with no 'glass skills are stuck with what the body gives us. Joe just posted on Mira that he has put his spider in storage for the winter, guess I should give him some grief about adding back the heater to extend his season. One of my design goals is being able to drive my X on the annual Jan. 1 SOHC club drive here but I guess that won't happen this year.

I too would like to build an absolutely minimal shell for street but I like mine too much to go that next step.
 
Good show. About time someone made a rattier X than my rat. I assume you are following Steve Cs Lemons build. Never heard of a fiberglass targa section. Those of us with no 'glass skills are stuck with what the body gives us. Joe just posted on Mira that he has put his spider in storage for the winter, guess I should give him some grief about adding back the heater to extend his season. One of my design goals is being able to drive my X on the annual Jan. 1 SOHC club drive here but I guess that won't happen this year.

I too would like to build an absolutely minimal shell for street but I like mine too much to go that next step.
Due to my lack of fiberglass skill I've managed to develop decent metal fabrication skills. So every mod I do is in steel, which might be more work but does allow for all of the same changes to be made (even if it will be heavier in some cases).

If I ever get time to build that car I assure you it will definitely be rattier than yours. ;)

Fortunately, for the most part the weather here isn't an issue with rain, snow, or cold, so no windows isn't a problem in that respect. However the excessive heat is a problem with no top and no AC. So a car like this might be as limited use here as for you there, just in the opposite time of the year.

One plus to building a gutted car could be to use it for track days. That would be fun. However I'd have to see if it meets any safety requirements. But it seems some track days don't have any.
 
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I have built several track specific X1/9s. One was a particularly fun project. We had access to a bunch of left over roll cage tubing that was one grade too thin for the new cage specifications for IMSA's Grand Sports division. And at the time I had an X1/9 chassis that had been stripped for parts. Windshield, interior, various body panels (hood, deck lids, one door, etc...) and the driveline. The tub wasn't great as the floor pans were rusted out from sitting with water leaking into the floors. The windshield cowl was rusted pretty badly at the base of the windshield like so many are. but the rest wasn't terrible. I loaded the tub on the trailer to take it to the crusher and stopped by the race shop on the way. I was standing there talking with a good friend (who recently bought my '74) when he ask where I was going with the tub. "To the crusher" was my response. Well, we were standing beside the rack full of obsolete tubing and one thing lead to another and a few minutes later I was unloading the tub at the shop.

The idea we had was to build an X1/9 to run hill climbs and track days that was as fast as possible, for as cheap as possible. That afternoon we had the windshield off and the next weekend I had cut away the radiator box, the floors all the way to the rear passenger compartment bulkhead. Ultimately, I cut away all of the bulkheads but the one between the cockpit and the front trunk. Plus all of the floors. Then we started with the tubing and bender. When deciding on the roll bar, since I am tall and without a windshield we didn't want a full cage it was decided to cut the entire targa bar off from the top of the doors. I bent the main roll hoop (a couple of inches taller than the targa bar was) and then a front hoop across the top of what had been the dash. We cut away much of the dash structure, replace by a bar that would support the pedals and steering column. A few more bars tied in the strut towers and some spare 1" square tubing filled in between the rear strut towers in place of that big stamping. The floors were replaced by a large flat sheet of aluminum, as was the rear passenger compartment bulkhead. The forward engine compartment fire wall was cut away. Removing that and the rear bulkhead makes for an enormous engine compartment with easy access.

The car was now mostly a tube frame with an X body around it. I made a faux targa bar by adding a piece of fiberglass sheet, cut in the shape of the bar and attached to the sides of the main hoop by welding on a little bracket and pop riveting it in place. The aluminum floors and buckheads were also pop riveted in place and sealed with windshield RTV. We put a cheap, 8 gallon, plastic fuel cell in the front trunk. I took a big hammer to the aluminum floor to make clearance for a Kirkey race seat and welded a pair of cross bars to the center tunnel and rocker to mount seat brackets on. We ended up pulling the 1300/4 speed driveline from another friends '78 autocross car. I had built the engine/transmission a few years earlier and it only had a few events on it. The hood was made from the same fiberglass panel material that the targa bar sides were. I pop riveted some aluminum angle to it for rigidity. The same was done for the engine cover/rear trunk. And we also cut away the rear panel and welded in three small crossbars to support a section of metal screen in place of that bodywork. The idea being to allow air to vent right through the rear of the car.

We pooled our fund to buy the seat and harness, the cell, a few suspension parts (it used Granada springs and a set of KYB struts), brakes a quick release steering wheel and I contributed a set of 13x6 wheels with Yokohama race tire takeoffs. I think all total we had about $1000 out of pocket in the car.

We took it to a few autocrosses and it was a blast to drive. The three of us drove it. I was the only person with a license to track it at the time. It did way better than it had a right to on track. With the 4.42 final drive it would turn right at 8K rpm down the back straight at Road Atlanta. I forget how fast that is. 120mph maybe? I'll have to do the math again.

We ran the car for two seasons. I tracked it maybe 5 times? We weighed it at the shop at under 1300 lbs. As a result it was way quicker than anybody expected. While crude and lacking development it drove quite nicely. The roomy engine bay had me thinking about drivelines. Another friend had an Acura Integra racecar he had crashed in turn 1 at Savannah. I kept trying to talk him into donating the driveline to the project in exchange for driving. Ultimately, my original partner dropped out of autocrossing due to his son starting to race quarter midgets. And the other, who provided the driveline, had a bout with cancer. The car was left in storage for a couple of years. Then the race shop got moved and that meant the car had to go somewhere. I gave up my interest to the guy who had the bout with cancer, he took back his driveline for his other car and sold the chassis to a guy I didn't know. I never saw the car again.

I have always wondered where it went and with the advent of Lemons have contemplated building another and using a Toyota 2ZZ driveline. Sub 1500 bls and 200 HP would be a damned quick car. :)
 
Every time discussions like this come up it gets me thinking about the "outlaw" project more. I've had various ideas of what could be done, from a very wild street custom to a very purpose built track car. Ideally I'd like to make something in between those, with aspects from all of it included. My general feel is to keep the weight as low as possible, so a lot of added tubing (e.g. full rollcage) wouldn't be included - and therefore not a true race car. I'd even be willing to sacrifice some 'ultimate' handling for the sake of 'style'. And given the fact this chassis isn't worth anything and the resultant build would be worth even less than that, keeping the cost as close to zero would be necessary. Therefore a lot of exotic materials, expensive performance parts, and excessive labor are off the list. Definitely a quick and crude build. It would also be fun to experiment with some radical redesign/restyle ideas I've been bouncing around; totally for 'looks' rather than function. But I've promised myself to finish my other major builds first, of which there are about four or five at the moment.
 
With four or five automotive projects at one time I would suppose that strong focus on any one would be lost. But you aren't alone in that scenario. I can't deal with more than two and even then, one of them usually sits with no work done..
 
So true. Typically four will sit untouched until I get bored with the one I'm working on. Than I move to another, and so on. That's why nothing ever gets finished. That and the fact I work extremely slow.
 
Just saw another example of a "half" windshield similar to what I'd like to do on the "Outlaw". Maybe a little higher or a bit more vertical, whatever looks right with the X's lines. It would be fun to alter the targa bar also; maybe shorter to go along with the lower windscreen, or a smoother shape eliminating the flanges, pinch weld strips for the stock top and rear glass.

_por1867 - Copy.jpg
 
Of course you took tons of pictures and will soon post them?

One of my many regrets is that I didn't buy a digital camera sooner. And didn't recognize the value of documenting builds with photos.

This build predated cameras in cell phones. I bought a digital camera about that time but I really didn't use it to photograph any work in my shop. Build blogs were not yet a thing. I am not actually sure I have any photos of this car. I'll have to dig through my old 35mm print boxes to see. It certainly wasn't pretty. It was first sprayed with primer before buying a case of Krylon for a rattle can paint job. Today Lemons and ChumpCar builds are considered innovative and cool. Back then it was ugly.
 
Speaking of weight reduction, today I was reminded just how heavy the X's dash is. Removing it for paint prep and when I pulled it loose from the rear clips I wasn't ready for the sudden weight of it - like I said, it's been awhile since I removed one and I'd forgotten how much they weigh....a ton! I don't think any of my other old cars have a dash anywhere near this heavy. Especially when you consider the gauge cluster, HVAC controls, switches, and everything else is not on it when removed. 🤷‍♂️
 
If you have a scale laying around, maybe you could weigh it for the folks at home. Even the rectangular binnacle around the gauges and the glove box door weigh a ton.
 
My own experience in vehicle weight reduction has always been disappointing. Sure, if it's a race car, then have at it. But I have spent hours stripping soundproofing off the floor, removing plastic trim parts, and even replacing glass with polycarbonate only to find that I couldn't even match my previous best 1/4 mile time before the weight reduction.

After building numerous stripped-out "street-driven race cars," I have decided that 50lb of plastic and soundproofing and carpet is well worth carrying around if it makes the interior more habitable.

Disclaimer: I'm 45 now, and I have a wife that I want to be willing to get in the car.
 
maybe you could weigh it for the folks at home
I'll do that today. The glove box door and the actual box inside were removed a long time ago and I'm not sure where I stored them, so they will not be included in the weight of the dash.
 
My own experience in vehicle weight reduction has always been disappointing. Sure, if it's a race car, then have at it. But I have spent hours stripping soundproofing off the floor, removing plastic trim parts, and even replacing glass with polycarbonate only to find that I couldn't even match my previous best 1/4 mile time before the weight reduction.

After building numerous stripped-out "street-driven race cars," I have decided that 50lb of plastic and soundproofing and carpet is well worth carrying around if it makes the interior more habitable.

Disclaimer: I'm 45 now, and I have a wife that I want to be willing to get in the car.
So true. It is really difficult to reduce the total weight of a vehicle by much unless you do some radical stripping and modifying. And the tradeoff in comfort is more than the weight reduction might indicate. That's why I'd do it to a second X; one that is otherwise scrap, and would very rarely get driven, and that I won't care about. Meanwhile another X will retain a full interior, air conditioning, sound system, power conveniences, and the like. Plus it gets a little performance increase to make it more drivable. Along with that I'm looking at a mild suspension upgrade, mostly to lower the car for the esthetics rather than ultimate handling. Two completely different cars for completely different sides of my brain.
 
I'm 72 and love my obnoxious Fatrat. But...I did buy an NA Miata so I would have an everyday little two seater with cool things like turnsignals, headlights, two wipers and it's relatively quiet. The Rat is for days I want to be silly and obnoxious and always come away with a giant smile after my 30 or 45 minute sprint. The spider I'm building will be like the Miata but with carb(s). Sorry CG.
 
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