Looking for 850 info.
- Thread starter spiderrey
- Start date
Chris Obert
autocrosser, X driver
My son dragged home a 72', we repaired the ignition switch. He has it at his house and is having trouble getting spark.
I see lots wrong in this picture, but nothing jumps out that would prevent spark...
If he takes the wire fron the coil to the distributor & touches it to ground with the key on, does he get spark from the coil when he pulls it free?
I'm sure Chris sees more wrong than I...
But first off the fuel line should route around the rear of the engine, not over the exhaust.
The spark plug wires at the distributor cap need boots!
No air cleaner of course, and so no place to route crankcase vent.
Seeing the engine bay brings back many memories, my first Fiat was lime green '72 850 Sport Spider.
But first off the fuel line should route around the rear of the engine, not over the exhaust.
The spark plug wires at the distributor cap need boots!
No air cleaner of course, and so no place to route crankcase vent.
Seeing the engine bay brings back many memories, my first Fiat was lime green '72 850 Sport Spider.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Hey Rey...
Just some basics to "start" with... (pun intended...)
Pull the coil wire FROM the cap and hold it a 1/2 from ground... see if you get a spark.
If yes, put a teaspoon of fuel down the carb and see what happens...
If no, first check to see if there is voltage at the + end of coil from ignition switch.
If yes, then pull dizzy cap, check points by spinning engine and obsesrving spark. Clean and adjust if no spark, reassemble and try again noting if you get sparl from coil wire, then spark from spark plug itself.
From there, check spark timing... maybe a bit of ether (starting fluid) might help.
Hopefully, you or he pulled the plugs and checked the compression before attempting any of this... I'm assuming.
Anyway, let us know how you do...
Just some basics to "start" with... (pun intended...)
Pull the coil wire FROM the cap and hold it a 1/2 from ground... see if you get a spark.
If yes, put a teaspoon of fuel down the carb and see what happens...
If no, first check to see if there is voltage at the + end of coil from ignition switch.
If yes, then pull dizzy cap, check points by spinning engine and obsesrving spark. Clean and adjust if no spark, reassemble and try again noting if you get sparl from coil wire, then spark from spark plug itself.
From there, check spark timing... maybe a bit of ether (starting fluid) might help.
Hopefully, you or he pulled the plugs and checked the compression before attempting any of this... I'm assuming.
Anyway, let us know how you do...
Testing for spark
We used to quickly test various parts of the ignition (primary and secondary) by one simple test. First check that voltage is being supplied to the coil. With the dist cap off, rotate the engine until the points are closed. Pull the coil wire off the dist cap and have someone hold it slightly away from ground. Attach a test light to ground, turn on the ignition, and carefully open the points with the tip of the test light. If the points showed voltage (and sparked), the coil should fire. If they showed proper voltage (bright test light) but the coil didn't fire, probably a bad coil. If they didn't show proper voltage, sometimes a bad condenser. And sometimes, when the points are bad, they wouldn't spark at all, sending no signal to the coil. Hope this helps.
Dave
We used to quickly test various parts of the ignition (primary and secondary) by one simple test. First check that voltage is being supplied to the coil. With the dist cap off, rotate the engine until the points are closed. Pull the coil wire off the dist cap and have someone hold it slightly away from ground. Attach a test light to ground, turn on the ignition, and carefully open the points with the tip of the test light. If the points showed voltage (and sparked), the coil should fire. If they showed proper voltage (bright test light) but the coil didn't fire, probably a bad coil. If they didn't show proper voltage, sometimes a bad condenser. And sometimes, when the points are bad, they wouldn't spark at all, sending no signal to the coil. Hope this helps.
Dave
Chris Obert
autocrosser, X driver
Thanx 4 the reply. Are we talking the wire to the cap or the other wire? Also, what do you see wrong in the pic? The car came with 2 manuels, but they are not very good.
The small wire from the coil to the points. Remove it from the distributor. With the key on ground it, then when you pull it off of the ground the coil should spark.
Oh boy, you want a list of what's wrong? I could write a book...
Wrong muffler.
I can see the ground past the engine.
Fuel line routed incorrectly.
fuel filter backwards.
no air cleaner.
no drip pan.
Spark plug wire boots.
Plastic cover over the fuel tank sender gone.
No PVC hose.
Fast idle hose missing?
Voltage regulator aftermarket?
Choke pull off assembly missing from carburetor.
Looks like a leaf on the water pump hose???
spiderrey
spiderrey
Ouch, lol. I know its the wrong muffler. P os handy work. Somone told me about the fuel line routing. Already replaced and rerouted fuel line. All of them. Air cleaner is just not installed at the moment. Plug boots purchased yesterday and i have plenty of sender covers here, Ill get one out for him. I knew there was a pan missing at the bottom, I could see the mounting points.
Fast idle hose missing?
'Choke pull assemble missing?
Thanx 4 info, Trying to get little things sorted out to make it a runner. We dont know much about these, We will look into all of this. Thanx Chris, Chris will really appreciate this.
Fast idle hose missing?
'Choke pull assemble missing?
Thanx 4 info, Trying to get little things sorted out to make it a runner. We dont know much about these, We will look into all of this. Thanx Chris, Chris will really appreciate this.
Chris Obert
autocrosser, X driver
Years ago I had a saying on the wall of the shop that was originally written about Ford Model Ts. It was something like:
These cars are so simple to work on that it seems everyone has, and not a single one of them knew what he was doing!
We thought it described 850s exactly...
Most of them will take more $$ to fix all the things that are screwed up than what the car's percieved value is. Fortunatly there are owners out there that understand this, so doing a "big" repair on an 850 is becoming more common. Hopefully the X1/9 will follow along soon.
kmead
Old enough to know better
I posted this for you on another site, not sure if you saw it:
I would check the timing.
First remember that it is a reverse rotation engine so BTDC will be to the right of TDC not the left when looking at the engine from the back of the car.
With the ignition in the off position, put the car in 4th gear and with the engine compartment open rock the car forward to bring the engine to TDC. Remove the distributor cap to be sure you have the rotor pointing to the #1 cylinder's plug wire.
Once you are sure you have it at TDC for the #1 cylinder, rock the car back so the timing mark on the crank pulley/centrifugal filter is 1/2"-9/16" to the right of the mark on the timing cover as seen from the back of the car. Now set the hand brake and chock the wheels of the car.
Remove the wire from the screw on the side of the distributor that goes to the coil.
Using a standard incandescent test light or make one using a 12v light bulb with a wire soldered to the hot and another to the bulb's ground, attach one end of the test light to the screw on the distributor that the wire from the points attaches to. Take the wire from the coil that was on the distributor screw and attach it to the other wire of the test light.
Slacken the distributor hold down bolt. Turn the ignition to the on position. Now carefully rotate the distributor body until the test light lights up. The light lights up when the points close. The timing should now be correct or very close.
Tighten the hold down bolt. Turn off the ignition, take the car out of gear and try starting the car after putting the distributor cap back on and returning the wire from the coil to the distributor back onto the distributor removing the test light.
If the test light never lit as you saw the points open and close you don't have power coming from the coil.
Hope that helps.
I would check the timing.
First remember that it is a reverse rotation engine so BTDC will be to the right of TDC not the left when looking at the engine from the back of the car.
With the ignition in the off position, put the car in 4th gear and with the engine compartment open rock the car forward to bring the engine to TDC. Remove the distributor cap to be sure you have the rotor pointing to the #1 cylinder's plug wire.
Once you are sure you have it at TDC for the #1 cylinder, rock the car back so the timing mark on the crank pulley/centrifugal filter is 1/2"-9/16" to the right of the mark on the timing cover as seen from the back of the car. Now set the hand brake and chock the wheels of the car.
Remove the wire from the screw on the side of the distributor that goes to the coil.
Using a standard incandescent test light or make one using a 12v light bulb with a wire soldered to the hot and another to the bulb's ground, attach one end of the test light to the screw on the distributor that the wire from the points attaches to. Take the wire from the coil that was on the distributor screw and attach it to the other wire of the test light.
Slacken the distributor hold down bolt. Turn the ignition to the on position. Now carefully rotate the distributor body until the test light lights up. The light lights up when the points close. The timing should now be correct or very close.
Tighten the hold down bolt. Turn off the ignition, take the car out of gear and try starting the car after putting the distributor cap back on and returning the wire from the coil to the distributor back onto the distributor removing the test light.
If the test light never lit as you saw the points open and close you don't have power coming from the coil.
Hope that helps.