Motor sat for 15 years. Oil pump wont pump

Derek Greenwood

Derek Greenwood

Daily Driver
I have a motor in my Scorp with about 4000 miles on it. Before I got it my son pulled the carb to replace it with duel carbs and never finished. So the car sat for 15 years. I have replaced the timing belt, water pump, idler pully and a bunch more. Got the carbs all hooked up and pulled the plugs to spin the motor to get oil pressure. Well, I can't get any oil pressure. Also the new filter was dry. So I assume the pump lost its prime. So is the only solution to pull the pan and pump. Prime the pump and then reassemble it?
 
you can pull the oil pressure sending unit and fill the pump through there. I would recommend pulling the filter and pre-filling it anyway. I have a tool I made out of an old oil pump drive gear that i can use with a drill to spin the pump through the hole below the block mounted distributor plug. Just have to pull the current drive gear out first. Usually a strong magnet and hand turning the engine a little bit to get it out. Or in the case of the scorpion where the oil pan is easy to access. Drop the pan, drop the pump. Prime it and reassemble. All of these will work. Just depends on how you want to attack the job.
 
Derek Greenwood said:
I have a motor in my Scorp with about 4000 miles on it. Before I got it my son pulled the carb to replace it with duel carbs and never finished. So the car sat for 15 years. I have replaced the timing belt, water pump, idler pully and a bunch more. Got the carbs all hooked up and pulled the plugs to spin the motor to get oil pressure. Well, I can't get any oil pressure. Also the new filter was dry. So I assume the pump lost its prime. So is the only solution to pull the pan and pump. Prime the pump and then reassemble it?
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Have you verified the oil pump is actually rotating? Was the gear reinstalled and the filler installed on top of it where the block distributor would be on an early engine? Is the filler the right depth, they can be modified to work in a Fiat single cam engine which requires they be made shorter. I know stupid questions.
 
kmead said:
Have you verified the oil pump is actually rotating? Was the gear reinstalled and the filler installed on top of it where the block distributor would be on an early engine? Is the filler the right depth, they can be modified to work in a Fiat single cam engine which requires they be made shorter. I know stupid questions.
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I didn't take any of that apart this time. So I can't imagine any reason it wouldn't be spinning and it ran great 15 years ago.
 
BEEK said:
you can pull the oil pressure sending unit and fill the pump through there. I would recommend pulling the filter and pre-filling it anyway. I have a tool I made out of an old oil pump drive gear that i can use with a drill to spin the pump through the hole below the block mounted distributor plug. Just have to pull the current drive gear out first. Usually a strong magnet and hand turning the engine a little bit to get it out. Or in the case of the scorpion where the oil pan is easy to access. Drop the pan, drop the pump. Prime it and reassemble. All of these will work. Just depends on how you want to attack the job.
Click to expand...
I tried priming it through the oil pressure light hole but wasnt successful. Would it work better through the oil pressure sending unit hole? Also will it gravity feed from there or do I need some pressure?
 
This is what I am working on
 

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All winter, I had it all apart, I tried priming it with the filter on but no luck. As soon as I took the filter off it primed right away. I assume there was an air pocket somewhere? It was a new filter and I had the oil pan off so I think the oil drained out of the pump.
 
Is it a Fiat engine? Maybe so since distributor is mounted on exhaust cam box. And then you used the Scorpion oil pan and pickup? Not sure what other differences there are to oil passages due to 20 degree tilt differences. Not much can go wrong with auxiliary shaft providing drive. But you lined it up when you did timing belt to prevent fuel lobe interference or ground the lobe off and plugged?

Where did you get the timing belt? Looks wider than what I've been seeing recently.

Your old push button for the fast idle electrovalve near the prop rod mount can be discarded and anything else its wired to (the electrovalve itself) since you no longer have the emissions laden original carburetor.
 
NigelProdrive said:
Is it a Fiat engine? Maybe so since distributor is mounted on exhaust cam box. And then you used the Scorpion oil pan and pickup? Not sure what other differences there are to oil passages due to 20 degree tilt differences. Not much can go wrong with auxiliary shaft providing drive. But you lined it up when you did timing belt to prevent fuel lobe interference or ground the lobe off and plugged?

Where did you get the timing belt? Looks wider than what I've been seeing recently.

Your old push button for the fast idle electrovalve near the prop rod mount can be discarded and anything else its wired to (the electrovalve itself) since you no longer have the emissions laden original carburetor.
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It's a lancia 2l block and 1.8 head but Fiat cam boxes so I could move the distributor. Made an oiling modification to the cam box to match up with the Lancia ones. I removed the lobe on the Aux shaft during the rebuild and plugged. The belt is the wide one and I got it from TMH. Then got what is supposed to be the proper water pump from MWB. It has high compression forged pistons and lightened and balanced rods. Also had 42 82 cams with adjustable pullys. There was a lot of head work done but standard valves. Couldn't get them in time when I built it. But there was room to enlarge the seat some.
 
lanciahf said:
All winter, I had it all apart, I tried priming it with the filter on but no luck. As soon as I took the filter off it primed right away. I assume there was an air pocket somewhere? It was a new filter and I had the oil pan off so I think the oil drained out of the pump.
Click to expand...
Thanks I will try that as well
 
Santa Barbarian said:
Please tell me more of the carb-and-intake setup you're using.
I'm working on a breathed-on Beta and need better ideas for the induction side. Are those IDFs? Into what intake?
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Yes they are 40 IDFs. The manifold is from Allison. I have a 40 dcnf and a 42 dcnf setup but this manifold allows the alternator and ac compressor to remain.
 
Derek Greenwood said:
Yes they are 40 IDFs. The manifold is from Allison. I have a 40 dcnf and a 42 dcnf setup but this manifold allows the alternator and ac compressor to remain.
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My AC is ancient history, but that alternator is in exactly the wrong place.... so I like the Allison set-up you have on there.
I've also have had a set of side-draft Mikunis to try-- but the intake is a bugger, constrained on both sides, and limits my ideas on how to switch it around to a custom fabbed unit.

So, I'm back to trying to figure out some IDF 40s. The P/O had a scheme with a spacer and an undersized 36, but it's proven impossible to tune correctly. Nothing's easy on a Beta.

Thanks for the info!
 
I plan on a vintage air unit so wanted a manifold that would clear it all. It actually fits very nicely. I even use the stock throttle linkage. The scorp dcnf manifolds will work if I got rid of the AC and moved the alternator.
 
Derek Greenwood said:
I plan on a vintage air unit so wanted a manifold that would clear it all. It actually fits very nicely. I even use the stock throttle linkage. The scorp dcnf manifolds will work if I got rid of the AC and moved the alternator.
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Thanks! I'm just over browsing the Allison offerings on Autoricambi.
I bought this Beta on a complete lark... feels like the PO stopped about 3 yards short of the goal line. He had a couple of bad calipers-- which I think I have in my scrounge pile. The usual assortment of electrical gremlins. And a "too tall" spacer on a badly-jetted carb on a single-plane Fiat manifold.

I'd like to cam it and try the Mikunis, but really at this stage I just need to get it going as a fun beater, then go back and work on my Scorp which pooped the bed back at New Year's. I'd love an ITB set-up on that Scorpion-- it's definitely carb limited at this point.

Appreciate all the info!
 
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