New book on the financial collapse may be an interesting read...
- Thread starter ColonelHaiku
- Start date
ColonelHaiku
True Classic
"triple A rated"
is not the characterization as I understand it. But, in any case, who made the decision to take it in that direction? Which former government employees made the tens of millions of dollars running these entities (Fannie/Freddie) into the ground?
is not the characterization as I understand it. But, in any case, who made the decision to take it in that direction? Which former government employees made the tens of millions of dollars running these entities (Fannie/Freddie) into the ground?
ColonelHaiku
True Classic
Looking in the mirror?
I've always paid my bills on time and I've never made a misrepresentation to help me qualify for credit. And I have no friends or family members who didn't have the means to do same. I guess I'm fortunate in that respect.
And I have to say it's comical that they chose to begin the film trailer with Eliot Spitzer... :clap:
I've always paid my bills on time and I've never made a misrepresentation to help me qualify for credit. And I have no friends or family members who didn't have the means to do same. I guess I'm fortunate in that respect.
And I have to say it's comical that they chose to begin the film trailer with Eliot Spitzer... :clap:
usta in Portland
Daily Driver
I don't see how it is possible...
to have a clear understanding of the sub-prime meltdown without understanding the the rating tranches that were invented to get the AAA rating to begin with; the level of demand for and the size of the fixed income securities business (it is vast by comparison to our equity markets) ; and the level of leverage the banks were applying to the purchase of these securities.
If these things aren't the central issue in a discussion of this type and their sequential history isn't looked at then the discussion is just a witch hunt for the most obvious villains. I would suggest that the villains in this story of very garden variety, there are a lot of them, and the main motivation was simple institutionalized greed. Some played the greed game more vigorously than others but the stuff they were playing with was inherently-but not obviously so at the beiginning-explosively unstable.
Here is another source. I think you have to do a registration to see the whole article but it is free.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n10/john-lanchester/its-finished
to have a clear understanding of the sub-prime meltdown without understanding the the rating tranches that were invented to get the AAA rating to begin with; the level of demand for and the size of the fixed income securities business (it is vast by comparison to our equity markets) ; and the level of leverage the banks were applying to the purchase of these securities.
If these things aren't the central issue in a discussion of this type and their sequential history isn't looked at then the discussion is just a witch hunt for the most obvious villains. I would suggest that the villains in this story of very garden variety, there are a lot of them, and the main motivation was simple institutionalized greed. Some played the greed game more vigorously than others but the stuff they were playing with was inherently-but not obviously so at the beiginning-explosively unstable.
Here is another source. I think you have to do a registration to see the whole article but it is free.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n10/john-lanchester/its-finished
usta in Portland
Daily Driver
Let's add some...
historical perspective to this. Here is an article summarizing the history of the sub-prime industry written before the meltdown. It is from inside in the sense that it is being written by someone in the financial industry and is very neutral. This isn't after the fact arm chair quarterbacking. And I picked this article more or less at random.
The whole tone in the mortgage industry prior to doomsday was generally bland on the topic of sub-prime; they had been around for a long time; the original sin that gave them a breathing chance goes back to legislation in 1980 and 1986. But the point of reading articles written before 2007 is that it is pretty obvious that sub-primes were just one more risk adjusted vehicle, not recognized at the time for the IED that they in fact were.
http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/3596857-1.html
historical perspective to this. Here is an article summarizing the history of the sub-prime industry written before the meltdown. It is from inside in the sense that it is being written by someone in the financial industry and is very neutral. This isn't after the fact arm chair quarterbacking. And I picked this article more or less at random.
The whole tone in the mortgage industry prior to doomsday was generally bland on the topic of sub-prime; they had been around for a long time; the original sin that gave them a breathing chance goes back to legislation in 1980 and 1986. But the point of reading articles written before 2007 is that it is pretty obvious that sub-primes were just one more risk adjusted vehicle, not recognized at the time for the IED that they in fact were.
http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/3596857-1.html
vircar
original owner
this man was to blame
it was his fault AIG went bankrupt when Greenberg was running the company it had a surplus of profit , Spitzer went after him as the AG of new york he went after Greenberg he quits new ceo comes in and gives the profits as bonuses and emptied the till . i know this as a fact cause sister in law worked as an attorney for AIG at that time .
it was his fault AIG went bankrupt when Greenberg was running the company it had a surplus of profit , Spitzer went after him as the AG of new york he went after Greenberg he quits new ceo comes in and gives the profits as bonuses and emptied the till . i know this as a fact cause sister in law worked as an attorney for AIG at that time .
TLR
MostSupremeHighPotentate
Well...
....my suggestion to look in the mirror was a non-directive generalized nod to the idea that greed...and other notable human inclinations, good and bad, lie at the base of it all.
And Elliot Spitzer actually end caps the movie to good effect. He readily acknowledges his own failings, nonetheless stays true to the idea that there's a larger culpability here that is the greater pursuit to be shared by us all.
....my suggestion to look in the mirror was a non-directive generalized nod to the idea that greed...and other notable human inclinations, good and bad, lie at the base of it all.
And Elliot Spitzer actually end caps the movie to good effect. He readily acknowledges his own failings, nonetheless stays true to the idea that there's a larger culpability here that is the greater pursuit to be shared by us all.
ColonelHaiku
True Classic
David Brooks’ Must-Read Column Today
That’s right... it's a must read: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/opinion/17brooks.html?_r=1&hp
I'm looking forward to my Father's Day gift of this book!
That’s right... it's a must read: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/opinion/17brooks.html?_r=1&hp
I'm looking forward to my Father's Day gift of this book!
usta in Portland
Daily Driver
Is this...
the "..little bit of David Brooks.." that "..goes a long way..."
Undoubtedly he is correct in his final statements here. Hard to see how the $153B mentioned accounts for a $5.5T worldwide meltdown in asset value. The culprits at, and around Fannie Mae deserve all the ignominy they can get but that won't answer the bigger issue of reckless banking practices that magnified every home purchase into a systemic threat. As long as critics keep acting like this all comes down to a acse of naming villains and heroes we are not going to get anywhere. But that seems to be the whole of our politics these days-it's all personal and personality driven. We tend to believe what we believe based on who said it and not what is said.
the "..little bit of David Brooks.." that "..goes a long way..."
Undoubtedly he is correct in his final statements here. Hard to see how the $153B mentioned accounts for a $5.5T worldwide meltdown in asset value. The culprits at, and around Fannie Mae deserve all the ignominy they can get but that won't answer the bigger issue of reckless banking practices that magnified every home purchase into a systemic threat. As long as critics keep acting like this all comes down to a acse of naming villains and heroes we are not going to get anywhere. But that seems to be the whole of our politics these days-it's all personal and personality driven. We tend to believe what we believe based on who said it and not what is said.
ColonelHaiku
True Classic
yep, Matthew
there are a few of us who think Krugman is "off" every day...
there are a few of us who think Krugman is "off" every day...
ColonelHaiku
True Classic
whoever the "villains" are
there needs to be a systematic investigation and if laws were broken, the law-breakers must be held accountable. This will hopefully help to deter any similar activities and allow for changes to our financial system that are more honest and avoid the fox-in-the-henhouse of "Dodd-Frank".
Have a nice day.
there needs to be a systematic investigation and if laws were broken, the law-breakers must be held accountable. This will hopefully help to deter any similar activities and allow for changes to our financial system that are more honest and avoid the fox-in-the-henhouse of "Dodd-Frank".
Have a nice day.
Matthew
True Classic
I don't think investigations are going to do anything but lead to more political polarization. The only thing that will keep this stuff from happening again is massive deregulation and free market reform that encourages competition and guarantees the freedom to fail. It was the massive government regulation that protected the big guys from the little guys, reduced the fear of failure and made it possible for those with money to buy special favors from the government.
ColonelHaiku
True Classic
The law-breakers...
be they Democrat, Republicans, Independents, apolitical... whatever need to be brought to justice.
Re: Dodd-Frank, here's Bloomberg on the sham that is the Dodd/Frank Financial Regulation bill... we're no safer today. This is the kind of resolution that some of our political class come up with after going face to face with arguably the biggest/worst financial crisis in the history of our country.
Pathetic.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-with-wave-of-a-magic-wand-jonathan-weil.html
be they Democrat, Republicans, Independents, apolitical... whatever need to be brought to justice.
Re: Dodd-Frank, here's Bloomberg on the sham that is the Dodd/Frank Financial Regulation bill... we're no safer today. This is the kind of resolution that some of our political class come up with after going face to face with arguably the biggest/worst financial crisis in the history of our country.
Pathetic.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-with-wave-of-a-magic-wand-jonathan-weil.html
TLR
MostSupremeHighPotentate
I'll wanna check this book out too.
Thanks for adding it (and the article) to the discussion. Another good book is Barry Ritholtz's "Bailout Nation". Link here for review:
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/bailout-nation-by-barry-ritholtz-book-review-2602.html
And Yves' Smith's "Econned" is worthwhile too. Link here:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/ECONned-Unenlightened-Undermined-Democracy-Capitalism/dp/0230620515"]http://www.amazon.com/ECONned-Unenlightened-Undermined-Democracy-Capitalism/dp/0230620515[/ame]
Thanks for adding it (and the article) to the discussion. Another good book is Barry Ritholtz's "Bailout Nation". Link here for review:
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/bailout-nation-by-barry-ritholtz-book-review-2602.html
And Yves' Smith's "Econned" is worthwhile too. Link here:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/ECONned-Unenlightened-Undermined-Democracy-Capitalism/dp/0230620515"]http://www.amazon.com/ECONned-Unenlightened-Undermined-Democracy-Capitalism/dp/0230620515[/ame]