New brakes - No parking brake

1

1FastX19

Daily Driver
Hey everyone, I just went though the brakes on Ice Blue. I bought caliper kits, Kelvar pads and steel hoses from Matt. I bought new front pistons from NAPA. After rebuilding the calipers, replacing the pad and lines and bleeding the system I have a good firm pedal, but no parking brake.

I know the problem is with the rear caliper, but I can't figure it out. I hope it is something obvious that I am overlooking. When I rebuilt the caliper everything went back just like the pic in the manual. The only difference was my calipers have 5 spring washers where the pic has three, but the pbrake worked with 5 before. I even adjusted the cable. The handle comes up three clicks and gets tight. I can see the pbrake levers pulled all the way, but I can still turn the rear rotors easily.

Any ideas?
 
Five spring washers is what I found

... when I rebuild my rears, so that's not necessarily bad (except that it means you can't trust the picture in the manual, which makes is a lot harder to be confident in any of the reassembly:hmm:)

When you press the pedal, do the pads really grab the rotor at the rear? If not, keep working the pedal until they do, and then try the parking brake again.

If that doesn't work, and you are absolutely morally certain that the parking brake cable is moving the lever arms on the rear calipers (push the rubber boot back and watch while a helper works the pbrake lever) through a decent arc... You may be looking at taking the things apart again:wall::no:

There are a whole bunch of good posts back on the old xweb about rebuilding the rears. They are a definite PITA, and the manual is completely unhelpful about how the stuff inside the piston, where the plunger is threaded in, is supposed to go together.
 
I pumped up the brakes and have a hard pedal so I am pretty sure the rears are grabbing, but I will check agian on Monday to be sure.

I am SURE the cable is pulling the levers. I pulled up on the handle pretty hard. It came up three clicks. I went back and looked at the calipers. The black boot on the cable was completly compressed. I tried to move the lever more, but it was at its limit.

I guess I'll have to take those back apart again. What a PITA.
 
Sounds to me like the rear pistons are screwed in too far.

Try unscrewing them 1/2 turn at a time until you can barely get the calipers over the pads.

At least that's my recollection of how it all works....

///Mike
 
I tried that too. They are all the way in and just barely fit now. I tried to unwind them, but even with only a small turn they don't fit. No way I could get half a turn.
 
1FastX19 said:
I tried that too. They are all the way in and just barely fit now. I tried to unwind them, but even with only a small turn they don't fit. No way I could get half a turn.
Click to expand...

The last thing you want to do is turn a rear caliper piston half a tun, because then it will not bleed correctly! Screw the pistons in all the way with the side of the piston face with the line on the top. Pump the brakes until the brakes work by stepping on them & trying to rotate the wheels with the car up in the air to confirm that the caliper is functioning. The pedal should be firm & at the top. If you pull on the parking brake, it should also cause drag on the rear wheels with the hydralic brakes released.

Remember that parking brakes on these cars often do not work well. Too hard of pads or metallic pads, or even not 100% smooth rotors with a non directional finish will not grip. And if you are using new pads with perfect rotors make sure you have bedded in the pads per the manufacturer's instructions before expecting the parking brake to work.

And learn to park the car in gear because when the brakes cool, it will roll away with just the parking brake on.
 
Wow Chris, you're more informative than the factory manual. That sure jogged my memory. Hope I'll remember it in the future.

From what I'm gathering the poster's parking brake doesn't work at all. I know for a fact they can indeed hold the weight of the car on a decent incline. I have a steep driveway and my '85 holds okay if I really yank on the handle. That's the way the car came though, so I dunno what it took to get it that way.

I do remember having a hard time getting the e-brake to work right after rebuilding calipers in the past. Can't remember how I finally solved it but somehow I think it had something to do with adjusting the pistons.

In any case, I hope the solution gets posted here once it's found. I remember fighting the problem before so it'd be nice to have the answer in the archives.

As an aside, when parking on an incline always select the gear that would be appropriate for the direction the car wants to roll. If the nose is pointed downhill leave the trans in 1st. If the rear end is headed south, select reverse. That'll ensure any torque imparted to the motor will be in the normal direction of rotation. You don't want to wind up rotating the motor (more specifically: the cam shaft) backwards if the car rolls the wrong direction for the gear selected.

///Mike
 
Chris, that seems to be the secret.....!!

Chris Obert said:
And if you are using new pads with perfect rotors make sure you have bedded in the pads per the manufacturer's instructions before expecting the parking brake to work.
Click to expand...

I remember when I replaced the rear pads, and o/hauled the rear calipers (never again!) on my 1300 X about 5 years ago, I had a helluva job getting an EFFECTIVE p/brake! I bled the brakes numerous times resulting in a good hard FOOTBRAKE pedal, but only a weak park brake effectiveness.
I kinda gave up in despair (after going thru litres of brake fluid), and resigned myself to having to park the X in gear for ever afterwards!
HOWEVER, after about 1 month's driving (and deliberately hard braking) the park brake effectiveness improved quite markedly!
I can't say that the X park brake is the best park brake EVER IN THE WORLD, but it sure will now hold the car on a reasonable incline. I'm sure it's that 'bedding in' of the pads that's all important!!
On the subject of the 5 springy 'bellville' washers, I would CERTAINLY be putting them ALL back in the calipers. PITA job, I know, but it's my understanding of the X rear caliper design that this stack of washers determines the efficiency of the self-adjusting mechanism of the caliper. To maintain a hard, and high, brake footpedal in an X, the self-adjusting mechanism MUST be working at its best!!
Hope this helps in achieving a reasonable park brake!

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
I tried the suggestions - made sure the rear brakes held with the footbrake - check - they were definatly holding the rotor from turning. I don't think bedding would make a difference. With the parking brake fully engaged I can easily turn the rotor with my hand. No way it would hold a 2000 # car even after bedding.

So, I took the calipers COMPLETLY apart again. I even disassembled the adjuster in the piston to see how it worked. I mocked the caliper back together with just the plunger, piston, lever and wedge (no seals or springwashers). When I assembled the caliper as show in the manual the lever travel was restricted and the piston hardly moved. I thought....hmmm...what if I reverse the plunger?? Wow...now we are getting somewhere. The lever goes to the full retact position and has quite a bit of piston travel now. I double checked both manuals I have and the both show the same pic of the rear caliper assembly (haynes, clymer).

Pic on left is as shown in manual. Pic on right is reversed and seems to work much better. I won't know for sure until I reassemble both tomorrow and try again. Anyone see a problem with assembly this way? Maybe it is correct and the manual is wrong AGAIN!!

plungers.jpg
 
Wait until tomorrow...

... and I'll be able to take a look at one that I know is assembled right... but working from memory, I think your right-hand picture is correct.

If it isn't an unspeakable screaming bitch :devil:to get that pawl in, then it's not right... they are a pain.

If you haven't checked the old xweb archives, do so... I'd never have gotten mine rebuilt without them.
 
Make your life a little easier...

Found this from "experience"...

Lift up the car and pull the (squarish) rubber cap off the parking brake adjustment access hole (located right in front of the coolant tubes, rear of the car) and loosen the nuts that adjust the parking brake handle.

Loosen it a lot. Makes for getting that ball-end out of the caliper a whole LOT easier. Also, a 90 deg. set of needle nose pliers is very helpful in removing the rubber-sleeved spring as well.

When yer done, tighten the nut(s) back into place. A good excuse to adjust your parking brake as well.

Good luck!
 
Thanks to everyone who offered advice. The reversed plungers were the problem. After reinstalling and bleeding again thay work great. I have a firm high pedal and the parking brake works perfectly.
 
Congrats!!

Always nice to hear that you got it fixed, and also what it was that made it work at last!! :)
 
Yeah, I hate it when there is a long thread with a problem, but no solution posted. I like to let everyone know the "FIX"


PS - Anyone rebuilding rear calipers DO NOT use the Haynes or Clymer diagram. It is wrong.
 
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