New gear reduction starter troubles

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papydude

Daily Driver
It’s the time again that I’m stumped on something that should be very simple but due to my choice of cars it is not.

I bought a gear reduction starter when my original starter pooped out on me. I’m finally got the time today to install it. It’s a WOSP performance from MWB LMS480, my ‘79 X has a cable from the starter to the alternator with a very clear connector in the starter. Immediately after inspecting the new starter I saw the absence of an alternator connector. The starter came with no instruction and the page for this part number on WOSP appeared to be down. My question is if the alternator cable will connect to the main lug like it says in my Haynes manual or if it’s now not necessary to be installed on the starter? I can send photos of the starter if that is necessary.

Thanks in advance
 
papydude said:
It’s the time again that I’m stumped on something that should be very simple but due to my choice of cars it is not.

I bought a gear reduction starter when my original starter pooped out on me. I’m finally got the time today to install it. It’s a WOSP performance from MWB LMS480, my ‘79 X has a cable from the starter to the alternator with a very clear connector in the starter. Immediately after inspecting the new starter I saw the absence of an alternator connector. The starter came with no instruction and the page for this part number on WOSP appeared to be down. My question is if the alternator cable will connect to the main lug like it says in my Haynes manual or if it’s now not necessary to be installed on the starter? I can send photos of the starter if that is necessary.

Thanks in advance
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There should be one fat wire from the battery, and another fat wire to the alternator. These both connect to the stud (red circle below) on the new starter. There should also be a thinner trigger wire from the ignition switch. This connects to the solenoid input (blue circle below). Some model years also had an output from the starter solenoid that goes to the gulp valve system; is this the case with your car? Some gear reduction starters come with a small wiring harness that recreates this gulp valve output, but it is easy enough to make your own.


WOSP.png
 
ng_randolph said:
There should be one fat wire from the battery, and another fat wire to the alternator. These both connect to the stud (red circle below) on the new starter. There should also be a thinner trigger wire from the ignition switch. This connects to the solenoid input (blue circle below). Some model years also had an output from the starter solenoid that goes to the gulp valve system; is this the case with your car? Some gear reduction starters come with a small wiring harness that recreates this gulp valve output, but it is easy enough to make your own.
Click to expand...
What my old set up looked like was two fat green to the bolt, the small red from the ignition, and a thinner green that has a rubber cap that connects to a smaller bolt on the solenoid. The smaller green is what I always believed was for the alternator but if it is t is there some DIY wiring that I’ll have to do to set it up to something else?
 
Maybe you can post a photo or two of what you have. Looking at the wiring diagrams I have, the wire from the alternator to the starter should be black and 6 mm² (a tad fatter than 10 AWG). The wire from the battery to the starter should be green and 16 mm² (about 5 AWG). The trigger wire from the ignition switch should be red and 2.5 mm² (13 AWG). The wire to the gulp valve system is listed as White / Red and 0.8 mm² (18 AWG).

Of course a lot could have happened to (been done to) the car since 1979. The wire to the battery is easy to recognize due to its size. The wire to the alternator is easy to trace, as it is routed out in the open to the back end of the alternator. The two should meet at the large lug on the new starter regardless of how they were wired previously. On my '85 there are a few locations where a wire is put in a green protective sleeve; is it possible that the wire to the alternator on your car is actually black, but inside a green sleeve?

The trigger wire goes to the 1/4" spade on the starter, without it the starter won't engage.

The wire to the gulp valve system there to disable the gulp valve system during starting. If it is not connected, starting can be difficult. You can create the signal for the gulp valve electrovalve by connecting a 1N4004 diode between the starter wire and the gulp valve electrovalve wire, cathode towards the electrovalve.
 
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So, I got it in after having to recharge my battery and it spun right up, the engine didn’t starter but I only spun it for a few seconds because it’s 40 degrees and pouring out here right now. I looked at the post here: https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/starter-click-she-noa-start.26148/post-413708 , where he talks about having to make a harness for the gulp valve. It sounds like it is the gulp valve wire but it’s not the most important thing to have connected but it would help for hot starts. He did not explain how to wire it but I’ll look for the valve tomorrow and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the help and I’ll update with a explanation of the wiring tomorrow.
 
So I’m yet to take a look at the gulp valve, however what is happening is the starter will sometimes engage, crank a couple times and then disengage while still spinning just not on the flywheel. I’m wondering if the gear on the starter is being pushed out to far to the point where it hits the flywheel, cranks for a moment and then extends past the flywheel, or if the starter is just not mounted fully or at a weird angle where it sometimes misses the flywheel. I can’t post videos but it sounds like a engagement of the flywheel, a crank or two, then a free spinning starter gear.
 
sounds like the solenoid is not holding in properly. Maybe check small red wire [ignition switch feed to solenoid] connection spade is fully on and then check condition of wire and spade. After that, check battery condition and terminals. If poor or crudy, maybe not enough voltage/current to hold in and spin under load. And of course, check that the big connection on the starter is good condition and tight!
 
Steve Thomas said:
if its for an x of the right engine, I can't imagine this happening.
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It's possible if you start it cocked and then tighten down the bolts in an unlucky order... but in that case slacking all three bolts and wiggling ot around - lift the flywheel end of the starter a bit to ensure that this heavy starter is not drooping as it goes in! - will get it positioned properly.
 
papydude said:
Yes, it’s for the 1979- 1500 engine so unless the PO downgraded and didn’t tell me it should be correct
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If you have a 5 speed like a 79 came with it should work. The starter is actually tied to the transaxle/flywheel combo, not the engine, so my 1500 has a 4 speed starter to match the transaxle/flywheel.
 
I figured it out, it was put in poorly, I needed up have to take off the fuel filter line, the 3 and 4 sparkplugs and a coolant hose to be able to reach down and hold the starter while tightening the bolts, it took me at least 30 minutes but the engine starter right up with just a little bit off starter fluid. Now to fix the sticky accelerator pedal and then onto the road!
 
papydude said:
I figured it out, it was put in poorly, I needed up have to take off the fuel filter line, the 3 and 4 sparkplugs and a coolant hose to be able to reach down and hold the starter while tightening the bolts, it took me at least 30 minutes but the engine starter right up with just a little bit off starter fluid. Now to fix the sticky accelerator pedal and then onto the road!
Click to expand...
And next time you need to remove / replace the starter, try working from below instead; easy access once you remove the two bottom shields.
 
EricH said:
It's possible if you start it cocked and then tighten down the bolts in an unlucky order... but in that case slacking all three bolts and wiggling ot around - lift the flywheel end of the starter a bit to ensure that this heavy starter is not drooping as it goes in! - will get it positioned properly.
Click to expand...
and the winner is!
 
Yeah, this is the so far the worst experience I’ve had with my X yet, blew a starter solenoid, took a week or two to diagnose that as the issue, was shipped the incorrect starter, bought a gear reduction, took a long time getting the electrical set up due to the lack of access from underneath, killed my battery, and had to fix the positioning. But it’s starts very nicely now although I did get complaints because of my lack of exhaust system on the car even though it sounds nice, just very loud. Can’t wait to finally drive this very project car.
 
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