New long time project ideas

carl said:
It's more fun and educational to take a street car and lighten it up to make a better performing car than to take a race car and downgrade it to make it a street car.
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I disagree. it depends on the car and what you are looking for in the drive. I like to be connected to the road, which is why I love the X. as has been stated in many reviews, it is as close you can get to a go cart on the street. to be it isnt just the "race car on the street" its the feel and the openness. If I could shell out 50k+ I would be driving an arial atom. If I wanted to eventually get up to 20k, the df goblin would be on its way. If it werent for my accident on a motorcycle, and my wife not allowing me to own one, that would probably suffice for that feel. Growing up going to the go cart track with my cart was fun, but I was giggly when I took it to the store a few times.

there also is the attention whore in me. if you cant tell by my X that has way too big of tires to be a top performer, way too big wing that probably slows it down. But even as obnoxious as my X may be, an open wheel single seat car would probably get more attention.
I haven driven many cars in my life. from scary fast street cars to special purpose race cars. (both circle track and road track) and My favorite is the open wheel experience.

Also keep in mind I said it is my ultimate dream, followed by owning a LP400, neither is going to happen unless I win the lottery, in which I would have to start playing to do it. So the street race car is kinda a mute point unless some barn find somewhere can get it down below 5k to start the project, which I dont see happening.

As I dont have to decide today, just want to know before winter, I have alot of time and value the input from this group. Even if it is crazy, very good, or I disagree, I love the input. seriously, this forum has the best people in any other forum I go to. Major diversity of ideas, skills and sense of humor. (the last being the most important IMO) which is why I pretty much have this tab open all day while at work.

Odie
 
I'll throw in my two cents here on some of the ideas battered around here have experience with two of the engines you are thinking about. First the rotary.

I had an RX-8 for 8 years then sold it because the extended engine warranty ran out and I was sacred the engine would fail as so as many of the new generation rotaries had. As Jeff pointed out thier main advantage is they are small and light. A Rotary is on average is 40% lighter then a 4 cylinder and 60% lighter then a 6 cylinder while the core engine is about the size of a large bowling ball bag. This would likely make the X lighter when you finish then OEM setup, very nice. This could be a good choice for a X assuming you can get the trans that will fit it. On the down side they drink gas like a 12 cylinder super car. I drive aggressively and would average 12 to 13 MPG combine highway and city streets. Best Highway I ever returned was 22-23MPG worse city was 9-10MPG. They also consume more fuel then a piston engine at idle. All that extra gas is thrown out the exhaust pipe and coolant system due to the inefficient poly morphic combustion camber. This in turn makes the exhaust of the Rotary 300 to 400 degrees hotter then a piston engine. Now this is an advantages if you go turbo because a turbos actually converts heat into boast which is why the rotaries respond well to turbos but not so good inside the small confines of the X's engine bay. What has been killing all those rotaries is heat. The Rotary needs a robust cooling system, oil cooler (not optional, the oil does a lot of the engine cooling) and you'll need to keep the exhaust system shielded very well. It will be a challenge. You will also need to keep in mind gear reduction because to have fun with a rotary you want to keep it between 5K to 9K RPMs which will not work well with transmissions geared for cars that top out at 6K RPMs. It is a fun engine but just like fun women there is a lot of baggage to deal with.

Subi engine, I would assume the WRX engine either 2.0 or 2.5. Great engine with a nice low center of gravity and great reliability. The problem you will face is packaging. As Jeff pointed out these are popular with the 914 crowed because that layout is what they now have and the chassis is formed to accept it. The amount of cutting and rebuilding to fit this engine on an X would be extensive and turn the X into a rear engine car rather then a mid engine car. I see no way you can put that engine in front of the transmission with the space available. This would kill the handling in turn. You are also moving from a parallel engine/Trans arrangement to a 90 degree set up which will be more parasitic on to wheel HP.

In my humble opinion the very best solution is an arrangement similar to what the X starts with, a front wheel drive engine/tran where you can move the engine and transmission together. Maybe a GTI engine would be interesting and I was just reading about a member that used the VR-5 arrangement which sound very interesting. I also would want to keep it as light as possible following Colin Chapman famous quote "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." Good luck and look forward to seeing what you come up with.
 
KBabcock said:
I'll throw in my two cents here on some of the ideas battered around here have experience with two of the engines you are thinking about. First the rotary.

I had an RX-8 for 8 years then sold it because the extended engine warranty ran out and I was sacred the engine would fail as so as many of the new generation rotaries had. As Jeff pointed out thier main advantage is they are small and light. A Rotary is on average is 40% lighter then a 4 cylinder and 60% lighter then a 6 cylinder while the core engine is about the size of a large bowling ball bag. This would likely make the X lighter when you finish then OEM setup, very nice. This could be a good choice for a X assuming you can get the trans that will fit it. On the down side they drink gas like a 12 cylinder super car. I drive aggressively and would average 12 to 13 MPG combine highway and city streets. Best Highway I ever returned was 22-23MPG worse city was 9-10MPG. They also consume more fuel then a piston engine at idle. All that extra gas is thrown out the exhaust pipe and coolant system due to the inefficient poly morphic combustion camber. This in turn makes the exhaust of the Rotary 300 to 400 degrees hotter then a piston engine. Now this is an advantages if you go turbo because a turbos actually converts heat into boast which is why the rotaries respond well to turbos but not so good inside the small confines of the X's engine bay. What has been killing all those rotaries is heat. The Rotary needs a robust cooling system, oil cooler (not optional, the oil does a lot of the engine cooling) and you'll need to keep the exhaust system shielded very well. It will be a challenge. You will also need to keep in mind gear reduction because to have fun with a rotary you want to keep it between 5K to 9K RPMs which will not work well with transmissions geared for cars that top out at 6K RPMs. It is a fun engine but just like fun women there is a lot of baggage to deal with.

Subi engine, I would assume the WRX engine either 2.0 or 2.5. Great engine with a nice low center of gravity and great reliability. The problem you will face is packaging. As Jeff pointed out these are popular with the 914 crowed because that layout is what they now have and the chassis is formed to accept it. The amount of cutting and rebuilding to fit this engine on an X would be extensive and turn the X into a rear engine car rather then a mid engine car. I see no way you can put that engine in front of the transmission with the space available. This would kill the handling in turn. You are also moving from a parallel engine/Trans arrangement to a 90 degree set up which will be more parasitic on to wheel HP.

In my humble opinion the very best solution is an arrangement similar to what the X starts with, a front wheel drive engine/tran where you can move the engine and transmission together. Maybe a GTI engine would be interesting and I was just reading about a member that used the VR-5 arrangement which sound very interesting. I also would want to keep it as light as possible following Colin Chapman famous quote "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." Good luck and look forward to seeing what you come up with.
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the rotary/subie engine was for if I did the 600 multipla, not in the X. but the rotary, which sounded the best at the time, is now down lower as trying to cool it back there might not work.
following t Thread (boosted boiz) who stripped a tesla plaid and the funny part is on the street is wasnt faster even though they took ~700 lbs off of it. the issue lied with they couldnt get traction. the weight actually helped :) now when they went to the strip, where it was stikier, is was quicker for sure. I am sure wonce they play with tires/compounds it would be quicker. but thought it was interesting being the first time I saw Chapmans theory not work as expected.

Odie
 
autox19 said:
the rotary/subie engine was for if I did the 600 multipla, not in the X. but the rotary, which sounded the best at the time, is now down lower as trying to cool it back there might not work.
following t Thread (boosted boiz) who stripped a tesla plaid and the funny part is on the street is wasnt faster even though they took ~700 lbs off of it. the issue lied with they couldnt get traction. the weight actually helped :) now when they went to the strip, where it was stikier, is was quicker for sure. I am sure wonce they play with tires/compounds it would be quicker. but thought it was interesting being the first time I saw Chapmans theory not work as expected.

Odie
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My bad, I was mixing up two separate threads.

When you get into higher HP grip does become the limiting factor. I watch some of this guys try to push 500hp into a FWD car with disappointing results and just smile. When the Corvette moved to rear/mid engine they gained 1 second in zero to sixty time by just moving the weight further back over the drive wheels.
 
Deathkart Monster Miata.

I understand your desire to go with a race car and make it a street car, I just can't relate to it having never driven a real race car. How about the young man whose dad is making pretty much an X with little to no X parts left on it. Hasn't posted any updates in awhile.
 
carl said:
Deathkart Monster Miata.

I understand your desire to go with a race car and make it a street car, I just can't relate to it having never driven a real race car. How about the young man whose dad is making pretty much an X with little to no X parts left on it. Hasn't posted any updates in awhile.
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the deathKart X19 has been a thought and a possibility.....
 
OK. Really leaning with using an x as the basis for my next project. It is really my first "car love" since I drove one home in '86. I have a possible candidate but it is 350 miles away and not sure my outback can tow it back that far. Need towing gurus to chime in. Capacity is 2700. I have the tow bar to flat tow, but I have heard horror stories on flat towing at hwy speeds. I have access to a car hauler but would probably push me over the weight. Are tow dollys any safer? I am checking the weight Capacity of my snowmobile tilt trailer as well.

Odie
 
Ideal would be a lightweight trailer that will allow you to get the whole car on it. I've never been a fan of towing a old vehicle on its own wheels - either all four or even two on a dolly. I have a simple, single axle, 13' utility trailer that a X fits perfectly on. The combined weight of trailer and X are so little I can't tell it is behind me. Maybe you can rent something like that?
 
I own a tow dolly currently & had 1 as a kid as well. Towed my recent 500 purchase 3 hours with no issues. I've towed several Elantras 2+ hours & a 280ZX carcass I bought for a 5 speed swap for my 75 280z. Last year I was going to dolly my X from NH to the MWB open house, but a family emergency came up. I wouldn't hesitate to use a dolly. Minimal tongue weight. Only draw back for me is you can't back up once loaded.
 

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JKIDD said:
I own a tow dolly currently & had 1 as a kid as well. Towed my recent 500 purchase 3 hours with no issues. I've towed several Elantras 2+ hours & a 280ZX carcass I bought for a 5 speed swap for my 75 280z. Last year I was going to dolly my X from NH to the MWB open house, but a family emergency came up. I wouldn't hesitate to use a dolly. Minimal tongue weight. Only draw back for me is you can't back up once loaded.
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I had 2 cars in my life with out reverse so shouldn't be a biggy ;)

Odie
 
A new version of the Fiat Jolly! Just the thing for stepping off the yacht and buzzing down to the club for a gin and tonic....at least before the engine overheats due to a lack of radiator.
 
Odie,

If you are interested in a GT40-bodied Fiero, I should connect you with my father. Roughly 20 years back, he and my uncle did a pair of those with Ford Taurus SHO V-6's. (They couldn't stand the thougth of a GM powerplant in a GT40 tribute.) Both of those cars have gone on to other owners, but Dad has some pictures of the process. I think the engine swap was more challenging than the body kit, but that's up your alley like it was to him.

Brian
 
autox19 said:
OK. Really leaning with using an x as the basis for my next project. It is really my first "car love" since I drove one home in '86. I have a possible candidate but it is 350 miles away and not sure my outback can tow it back that far. Need towing gurus to chime in. Capacity is 2700. I have the tow bar to flat tow, but I have heard horror stories on flat towing at hwy speeds. I have access to a car hauler but would probably push me over the weight. Are tow dollys any safer? I am checking the weight Capacity of my snowmobile tilt trailer as well.

Odie
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I've flat towed X's for thousands of miles. I made simple tow bar adaptors for both '74s, and later bumper shock equipped cars. Knock on wood, but I've never had an issue. I towed a '74 behind my motorhome and I can honestly say I couldn't even tell it was back there - literally because I couldn't even see it! (That made me nervous.) I wouldn't hesitate to tow another one, as long as it had good tires on it!
 
MikeHynes said:
I've flat towed X's for thousands of miles. I made simple tow bar adaptors for both '74s, and later bumper shock equipped cars. Knock on wood, but I've never had an issue. I towed a '74 behind my motorhome and I can honestly say I couldn't even tell it was back there - literally because I couldn't even see it! (That made me nervous.) I wouldn't hesitate to tow another one, as long as it had good tires on it!
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I agree it's no problem for a well cared for, serviced, known condition X. But I would not feel so confident on a newly purchased X with no idea of its true condition or history. Which I believe is what he was considering doing.
 
so still in the decision phase, but I got an opportunity for a lotus 7 kit that isnt completed, but has most of the parts. it meets all my requirements other than I love mid engine. from whrre the kit sits, it is still a 3-5 year project from what I can see.
Stay tuned
Odie
 
This is my next long term project. to be added to the long list of long term projects I already have. This is an Allison Legacy Car. It is a 1450lb tube chassis, fiberglass body, quick change rear end that has a mazda 2.2 truck engine and 5 speed. When im done it will have a 2.0 16valve fiat dohc and a 131 5 speed.
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BEEK said:
This is my next long term project. to be added to the long list of long term projects I already have. This is an Allison Legacy Car. It is a 1450lb tube chassis, fiberglass body, quick change rear end that has a mazda 2.2 truck engine and 5 speed. When im done it will have a 2.0 16valve fiat dohc and a 131 5 speed.View attachment 76027View attachment 76025View attachment 76026View attachment 76024
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Very unusual project vehicle.

If you weren't on the opposite coast I'd be contacting you about that Mazda engine and trans. :) I'd like to do a front engine / rear drive conversion on one of my FWD vehicles. For some reason components like that are difficult to find here, at least at a reasonable price and condition.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Very unusual project vehicle.

If you weren't on the opposite coast I'd be contacting you about that Mazda engine and trans. :) I'd like to do a front engine / rear drive conversion on one of my FWD vehicles. For some reason components like that are difficult to find here, at least at a reasonable price and condition
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I have no real use for the mazda stuff. The engine has a blown head gasket from what it was told. Im salvaging the carb, exhaust and alternator. It is a sealed engine series. So you have to ship them the engine and pay their price to fix and reseal

i am going to make a road race car out of it.
 
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