New Scorpion Owner

[fastx19]

As for AC, my personal opinion would be to look for some type of kit which you can fab into it. The old AC was never any good, and by todays standards would never perform as well as the new items. The hardest part will probably be the interior plumbing of the AC Heat Exchanger and the plumbing of it into the current system. On the engine side, the newer pumps are so much smaller than the original. Would need to fab up the mounts and belt part. Of course, would also need to run the radiator for it to the front with piping, condenser, etc. I personally would look to see if I can incorporate a better fan into the system for much better air flow through the vents. Anyways, just my thoughts, I will be curious to see what others have done or think.

 

[dherr]

Welcome to the group, looking forward to watching you continue to improve your car.

Also, you don't necessarily need to find a Ferrari V6, as there are others that will fit. I picked up an Alfa Busso V6 and 5 speed a few months ago and will be going down this route.

 

[BrettM]

I have an upgraded 2.0 16V engine in my Scorpion. The extra performance is really nice and makes the car so much fun. The Afla V6 would be the hot choice though.

 

[MONACOV66]

Nice car, welcome to the group. As a fellow Scorpion owner, I look forward to seeing your progress.


View attachment 77077

That's the correct switch you no longer need. One wire may be ground. But trace them back as far as you can. maybe you still have the no longer needed electrovalve on the firewall. Can't tell from pics posted so far.

You have 5 miles of old emissions and AC wiring you don't need. A tidy upgrade is to swap in a 65 amp Bosch alternator with internal regulator from later Fiats to ditch the black box external one mounted nearby you still have.

Yank the studs from the transmission that mounted the no longer present emissions air pump and insert flush hex head screws. Makes a better spot for hands or feet without being poked leaning into car working further back.

For the prop rod some people have installed a hydraulic strut on the driver's (Scorpion) side.

.

NP,
Do you know the Bosch Alternator Model Number?

 

[MONACOV66]

Welcome to the group, looking forward to watching you continue to improve your car.

Also, you don't necessarily need to find a Ferrari V6, as there are others that will fit. I picked up an Alfa Busso V6 and 5 speed a few months ago and will be going down this route.View attachment 77104

Brilliant looking engine swap!!!

 

[NigelProdrive]

NP,
Do you know the Bosch Alternator Model Number?

Alternator 65A Bosch Self-Regulated (Fiat Pinifarina 124, 131/Brava 1978-85 + All) - REMANUFACTURED

Alternator 65A Bosch Self-Regulated (Fiat Pinifarina 124, 131/Brava 1978-85 + All) - REMANUFACTURED

www.midwest-bayless.com

Alternator 65A Self-Regulated (Fiat Pininfarina 124, 131/Brava 1978-85 + All, Lancia 1975-82) - NEW

Alternator 65A Self-Regulated (Fiat Pininfarina 124, 131/Brava 1978-85 + All, Lancia 1975-82) - NEW

www.midwest-bayless.com

If you are keeping the engine you'll wanna also want to do a modern high torque starter. Much lighter, compact and with better wiring connector.

Starter DOHC - GEAR REDUCTION Starter (Fiat Pininfarina 124 All, 131 All, Lancia Beta, Scorpion/Montecarlo) - NEW

Starter DOHC - GEAR REDUCTION Starter (Fiat Pininfarina 124 All, 131 All, Lancia Beta, Scorpion/Montecarlo) - NEW

www.midwest-bayless.com

And if not using the original cruddy AC system and still have the cast iron oil filter housing boat anchor which had the compressor bracket there is a compact lightweight aluminum oil filter housing which gives much more space on backside and lowers alternator away from carbs.

Oil Filter Housing DOHC 1.8 / 2.0 (Fiat Pininfarina 124, 131 1977-On) - U9

Oil Filter Housing DOHC 1.8 / 2.0 (Fiat Pininfarina 124, 131 1977-On) - U9

www.midwest-bayless.com

 

[MONACOV66]

Does anybody have a spare clip for the stock air cleaner housing? One of mine is missing. I can probably fabricate one but I would prefer not to.
Also, any source for the speedometer cable grommet?

Welcome to the group, looking forward to watching you continue to improve your car.

Also, you don't necessarily need to find a Ferrari V6, as there are others that will fit. I picked up an Alfa Busso V6 and 5 speed a few months ago and will be going down this route.View attachment 77104

Very nice!!! How complicated do you believe the install of the Alfa Busso will be???

 

[dherr]

Does anybody have a spare clip for the stock air cleaner housing? One of mine is missing. I can probably fabricate one but I would prefer not to.
Also, any source for the speedometer cable grommet?

Very nice!!! How complicated do you believe the install of the Alfa Busso will be???

Well everything is relative to your skills, but the installation will be pretty straightforward as the engine compartment on these cars is pretty large. I have to modify the crossmember for the exhaust, do custom CV axles (Alfa inner to Lancia outers) and the usual gas, water and electrical work. My car needs paint, but is almost rust free, so I'll take advantage of that and strip it down and probably rewire it as well.

For stock parts, you can check with Midwest Bayless or order from Monte Hospital for some of the harder to get parts new. Used parts come up from time to time, not sure where you are located, but we can likely help you find what you need.

 

[Rupunzell]

Hi Bernice!
The car has a set of fabricated rods with heim joints. I just think they may not be correctly adjusted.
I have read all I can about the Montecarlo/Scorpion so I am aware of what it could have been if the lame OPEC deal hadn’t happened. Perhaps I should get my hands on a Ferrari V6 and do a conversion!
I’m getting older and wanted something unique, like my VehiCROSS. The Scorpion has always appealed to me (in fact, it’s a real headturner here already, even just sitting in my driveway). I also figure it’s a pretty stable investment that might also gain value because there are so few running 1977 Scorpions left.View attachment 77101

Check this weld on the shifter shaft as noted in red. That joint is a double "D" that has been welded. As with all welds, there is a tendency to crack. If that joint to the shaft is cracked, there will be excessive slop in motion transfer.

Did a non-weld repair some time ago on this one.. might have pictures of how it was done.

Bernice

 

[Rupunzell]

Ditch the antique AC compressor that is obese, inefficient and does not work good at all with R132. If the AC is going to be re-habed, chose a modern Sanden AC compressor, modify as needed. The system will need to updated to work on R132.. This means all new seals, hoses, expansion valve, controller switch and ...


Bernice

 

[davidb]

If you ditch the A/C altogether you’ll lose another couple lbs. by cutting off the
A/C bracketing. Me, personally . . . keep the engine & do “the usual” upgrade:
pistons, cams, Weber’s, etc. Or find an ‘81 - ‘82 injected Beta engine to re-
build for a swap. Same/same = higher C.R. pistons, cams, blah - blah - blah.
Although that swap requires some involved figment because of the injection
against the “firewall”. One day I’d like to see (it’ll never happen) someone put
a FIAT 130 V6 Type A or B engine in. That’s what the original intent was. The
120 prototypes had them. That’s why there’s so much room in the engine
compartment. Even a stock ‘71 FIAT 130 w/a Type B engine gave 165 HP &
could be tweaked HP-wise to Dino/Ferrari V-6 horsepower levels. They were
basically the same engine. These cars had immense potential. Thanks E.P..A..

 

[Rupunzell]

Not just adding more power from the drive train, the chassis/suspension is a LOT better than most realize or understand or appreciate.
It is the chassis/suspension that allows fine control of the power available.

~IMO, chassis_suspension is the most important aspect of any moto..

Adding more power/go is easy, having fine and excellent control of that power is LOTs more difficult.
~Key factor to control of any vehicle are tires/wheels. These are the only four patches between control and disaster..

Brakes, in modern times there are many, many, many ways to improve, upgrade.

FYI, MWB is reported to be working on a Honda K20/K24 install for the Scorpiacarlo.
IMO, the far more interesting power train for the Scorpiacalo would be the Saab/Scania B204/B234 with one of the F series transaxles.
Not just more possible power available, they are more durable, less finicky, tunable (Saab Tronic 5 engine management, open source), very moderate cost per hp/lb-ft torque (as delivered B204/B234 is good for about 500bhp/400lb/ft torque tweaked & proven reliable/durable. This would be difficult to achieve with a Busso V6 or any other V6) and about all any one could want from a road going power train.

~All above applies to the exxe... or why adding 200+whp to an unaltered exxe chassis does not need any chassis fix-ups.

Prime question would be what are your goals for this Scorpiacalo?


Bernice

 

[Rupunzell]

These cars had immense potential. Thanks E.P..A..

Not just the DOT (no EPA back then)..

It was much about Pininfarina S.p.A producing their first complete car design at a time when OPEC decided to pinch oil hard. Few if any would consider a big engined two seater during that moment in time.. Realize a 2.0 liter motor is subject to really high taxes in Italy (over 1600cc, taxes are !!!!!!!) .. and why Italian cars have often been high strung small displacement motors for this specific reality.

~Where Fiat/Lancia totally and utterly failed on this design was applying vacuum boosted brakes on the front only..
Unpredictable brake boost = disaster brakes, unpredictable stopping power due to unpredictable vacuum assist.. or front lock up when least expected or nil brake boost when most needed..

In comparison to Detroit or Germany or... there is not the same tax burden allowing for few reasons to not increase displacement to gain more power .. or the easy way to more power.

For those that perceive the Scorpiacarlo is not "well built" might not realize or appreciate it is much a hand built/coachbuilt car in many ways
even if they were produced on a production line..

Difference between the exxe -vs- scorpiacarlo, Fiat decided to take the design racing to win..


Keep in mind many of the same crew that produced the WRC car and track cars worked on the design of the exxe.. The circle of folks that created these motos is very small and related.

 

[NigelProdrive]

BaT pic 124 shows your heater core being bypassed. Also some brake lines and booster sensor still there when its been bypassed up front which are part of the blue capped brake lines in photo 121 which are no longer wanted.

 

[MONACOV66]

I thought I’d update on my car… (I hope I’m doing this post in the correct manner…)
I decided that the Lotus Esprit replacement seats that RJ80 (seller of my car) installed, weren’t to my liking.
I saw a BMW 633 with a “Cinnamon” interior and decided that was the direction to go in for my car. I ordered BRAUM seats in British Tan (Cinnamon, to me) which I am now working on installing. I also now have a MOMO “Indy” walnut wood wheel and MOMO walnut shift knob installed (wheel needs horn button wiring tweek). I’m gonna have all the other interior trim pieces re-done in corresponding cinnamon & black…

 

[NigelProdrive]

Careful if you go drilling new seat mount holes. There are things off center underneath like the coolant pipes you wouldn't want to hit.

 

[MONACOV66]

Thanx! I’m gonna try to be careful as I’m not as well versed with a Scorpion as I have been with other cars I’ve owned. I’m gonna try to use the factory mounting points. I’m still playing with the seat positioning, but I figure adapter brackets will have to be fabricated to work with the Braum seat rails. It’ll be work, but nothing I can’t handle…