New Year's Day drive ended poorly...

budgetzagato

budgetzagato

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Went to pick up some more brake fluid and some wiring stuff (found a crispy wire between the starter and alternator) and on the way back a noise (like pea gravel in a cat food tin) became apparent, followed by a squeal and then silence again.

When I got home I found this:
IMG_0892.jpg


Looks like I have to replace the belt and tensioner before I drive it again. Bummer, I was going to head up to an FEN meeting in it this week. :sad:
 
You are a lucky guy. That could have ended in a much more expensive fashion...
 
Oh yeah...

Don't I know it!

Thankfully the belt just lost a few thousand miles' lifespan rather than breaking. That'll teach me to not just replace unknown stuff. The belt looked new when I left (no cover).

Now I'm just bummed because I know I won't get new parts and install them before the next FEN meeting. :(
 
Did that belt come with the car? From the looks of it, that belt was ready to snap..

Check the tensioner bearing to see if it is OK. Also, check the condition of the cog wheel drive teeth. The one on the crank usually wears out first. IMO, replace them all along with the tensioner bearing and belt.

This way, you'll know the condition of these parts.

As a rule for any used car purchased, replace all belts, hoses, fluids and etc. This will establish a known base line for maintenance items.


Bernice
 
No, it was good before the drive..

The current condition of the belt is from the tensioner seizing. I wouldn't take out a car with a belt like this. I suspect the tensioner will come off in pieces.

Prior to this, the belt looked new. I suspect the P.O. replaced the belt but not the tensioner.

Fun! :nuts:
 
Not sure...

Scorpions in the US came with 1800 engines, not sure if they're interference of not. Mine has a 2 liter block and 1800 head. Not sure what that creates. :huh:

The 2 liter is not an interference engine in the normal sense of the word, but the #2 connecting rod can interfere with the fuel pump lobe on the aux shaft and knock a hole in the block. :doh:

For cars not using a mechanical pump, the trick is to cut the fuel pump lobe off the aux shaft and plug the oil hole. This way the only bad thing that can happen if the belt breaks is the valves can potentially hit each other.

In my case, the belt did not break, simply slipped on the seized tensioner bearing. This will all be fixed tomorrow. :thumbsup:
 
Yes

The only Fiat/Lancia engine that can take a broken cam belt is a 1500 SOC all the rest are interference fit.

Warren
 
Of course it didnt break, its italian!

Seriously, in about 30 years of on and off FIAT and Lancia ownership, I have never, and I mean NEVER experienced timing belt problems. Almost all other components have given me trouble, but not the timing belts.
On the X 1/9 s, I have to manually slide the belt back into the camshaft pulley, because it loves to have about 1/3 hanging on the outside, but if I leave it that way, it goes fine. Ok, I admit it scares me a little...
 
In the 90 s I had a 1982 Porsche 928 S. It used a timing belt, not a chain. The belt failed and the car just died, without damage, because it was a non interference engine... but PLEASE ! A V8 Porsche being driven by a belt! had I known this before buying that car, I would have bought instead another Fiat, which at least had reliable timing belts.
 
Ferrari's from that era had... timing belts too. Today, timing belts are very common. Fiat being the first to use timing belts in mass production and got the bad reputation of timing belt failures due to being first.

Timing chains fail too, don't think or believe metal does not break or fail, metal certainty does fail. Metal is just as rubbery as any other material, only the amount of movement is smaller and not usually observed by the observer.

It all comes down to proper maintenance belt or chain, both eventually require replacement. To believe you're going to simply drive any car with narry a care is pure folly.

What does and can go really wrong with that Porsche V8 in the 928 is failed# 2 & 6 connecting rod bearings and eventually spitting# 2 & 6 connecting rods out the side of the block. This is the most common failure in that Porsche V8.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1BlKelA3M"]Lemons 928 rod bearing DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - YouTube[/ame]


Bernice


Ellychiprout said:
In the 90 s I had a 1982 Porsche 928 S. It used a timing belt, not a chain. The belt failed and the car just died, without damage, because it was a non interference engine... but PLEASE ! A V8 Porsche being driven by a belt! had I known this before buying that car, I would have bought instead another Fiat, which at least had reliable timing belts.
Click to expand...
 
Better check the wear on your timing cogs-gears, they are likely wore out. Also check the belt tensioner and bearing they can cause this problem. The timing belt should track properly and not allow the belt to move much on the timing cog/gear.

Know there is a problem here that needs attention.


Bernice


Ellychiprout said:
Of course it didnt break, its italian!

Seriously, in about 30 years of on and off FIAT and Lancia ownership, I have never, and I mean NEVER experienced timing belt problems. Almost all other components have given me trouble, but not the timing belts.
On the X 1/9 s, I have to manually slide the belt back into the camshaft pulley, because it loves to have about 1/3 hanging on the outside, but if I leave it that way, it goes fine. Ok, I admit it scares me a little...
Click to expand...
 
1800cc Twin cam engines do go crunch if the timing belt fails..

If a mechanical fuel pump is not used, cut the fuel pump lobe off the aux shaft and plug the hole. Otherwise, the aux shaft will need to be timed-somewhat when the engine is put back together or when the timing belt is changed.


2 liter block with a 1.8 liter head gains a slight increase in compression.. but know the flow of the 1.8 head is not as good as the 2 liter head. The perfered thing to do is put it all back together with the proper 2 liter head. If higher compression is desired, higher compression pistons is the correct way to do this. The edge of the valves are very close to the base surface of the cylinder head.. which pretty much stops the practice of shaving the head down to gain much compression.

If you go the higher compression piston route, use dome up pistons with a flat top dome area to promote flame propagation. The cylinders on the twin cam is not spaced uniformed which limits dome design on pistons used.


Bernice


budgetzagato said:
Scorpions in the US came with 1800 engines, not sure if they're interference of not. Mine has a 2 liter block and 1800 head. Not sure what that creates. :huh:

The 2 liter is not an interference engine in the normal sense of the word, but the #2 connecting rod can interfere with the fuel pump lobe on the aux shaft and knock a hole in the block. :doh:

For cars not using a mechanical pump, the trick is to cut the fuel pump lobe off the aux shaft and plug the oil hole. This way the only bad thing that can happen if the belt breaks is the valves can potentially hit each other.

In my case, the belt did not break, simply slipped on the seized tensioner bearing. This will all be fixed tomorrow. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
 
Did I sound like I was defending timing chains over belts?

I know both can give excellent service if properly maintained, and both can fail if not. I have seen all scenarios, in my 38 years with cars of all kinds.
 
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