Oil filter experience

EricH

EricH

Eric Hamilton
Moderator
For years I've used Mobil-1 oil filters on the three daily-driving X1/9s.

When I did the mass oil change last spring, the local autozone was out of these, so I bought and used three Bosch filters instead... and I noticed that it took way longer for the oil pressure to come up on a cold start, on all three cars.

I had also changed oil grades (from Castrol 10W-40 to Rotella 15W-40) so wasn't sure whether to blame the filter or the oil. But with this spring's change, I was able to go back to the Mobil-1 filters, continued to use the Rotella... and now that idiot light is going off with the first few cranks, just like it used to.

This isn't exactly a controlled experiment, but it is three cars being driven under fairly similar conditions and displaying the same behavior. So I'm inclined to think that either the Bosch filters don't have as effective check valves, or I got three from the same bad batch.
 
All I can say is...

YEP!

You and several others are all out of my league as I use the crappy Fram PH7s as well as any other junk Brand X filter that Pep Boys happens to have.

I believe we had a recent discussion on a bunch of cross related filters that Fram offers that will work on our cars as well. At least they bolt up and seal... I have NO idea of what else might be going on.

My experience shows NO change in the idiot light behavior but to really see the difference a pressure GAUGE would be needed along with temperatures internally and externally noted.

I think I'm gonna continue to live fat, blind and ignorant to this issue as my 130,000 to the overall 170,000 miles of mistreatment have done me fairly well.
 
Finer micron level.maybe?

Could it be that the bosch Filters down to a lower micron level,and the oil pump is struggling to push the cold heaver oil thru a finer filter?

Just a thought!
 
FWIW, the oil filter just ruptured on my Explorer Saturday as I was cruisin' the interstate at 70mph. Didn't have a clue until the CEL lit up and it started knocking. I sure hope the engine isn't ruined. Such a nice vehicle for so long, but Kelly Blue Book doesn't make it worth fixing if it's broke.

I have tended toward WIX filters over the years. Motorcraft, Bosch, STP, all seem to me good filters for the cost. There's plenty of info and thought about filter quality out there to look at, and quality doesn't always seem to be directly related to price. I've found the most noticeable issue for me is leakdown overnight with resulting oil starvation at first startup -- clicking lifters, and slow pressure build up on some filters over others.

Discussing oil filters is like politics and religion. As my mom used to say: 'You pays your nickel and you takes your chance.'
 
Bosch filters...

Sounds like the Bosch filters (made by another company and labeled Bosch, BTW) had no drain back valve. It's easy to see, look for a rubber film behind the outer holes.

I used to use Bosch filters when they were available from Al's Auto Supply up here in the PNW. They looked cool in my VW but weren't very good filters. The lower price Fram filters at that time did a better job.

Now I use NAPA or WIX filters for the most part.
 
I tend to prefer Mann filters but have used the Bosch ones lately. I haven't noticed a difference as I tend to replace the oil every 3K as my car just goes from home to work and back (two changes a year).
 
Oil filter comparison.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIx4Y3TvAPk&feature=related"]Inside a K&N / fram / napa / oil filters - YouTube[/ame]
 
Champion Labs make a number of oil filters under various brands. I think Bosch is one of them.

The low oil pressure at start up is likely due to the drain back valve not seating and holding oil inside the filter. If the filter drains out when the engine is stopped, it takes time for the oil pump to fill it then pressurize the oil system.

I have been using K&N oil filters for a while now with good results, before Wix was the brand.

Do write the Date, Mileage, Oil type in the oil filter case as this is a good way to track oil change history.


Bernice

budgetzagato said:
Sounds like the Bosch filters (made by another company and labeled Bosch, BTW) had no drain back valve. It's easy to see, look for a rubber film behind the outer holes.

I used to use Bosch filters when they were available from Al's Auto Supply up here in the PNW. They looked cool in my VW but weren't very good filters. The lower price Fram filters at that time did a better job.

Now I use NAPA or WIX filters for the most part.
Click to expand...
 
It is a nice comparison, but what does it mean. Ok, if brand A has paper end caps and brand B has metal and brand C has this - that is all great and all but what does it mean. Has anyone done any control testing on different brands and 'what it means'?
 
Happy to find this thread. I recently changed the oil and filter for the first time since changing it shortly after getting the car, and the oil filter I put on was almost dry inside. It was a Bosch filter. I drove the car quite a bunch this spring, pushing it pretty hard sometimes, and nothing bad happened. But it sounds like it may have been oil-starved on start up. Not very happy with Bosch right now.
 
The Bosch brand (not just their filters) has gone through many major changes over the years. Lots of corporate mergers and acquisitions, manufacturing plants opened all around the world with various levels of product price points, parts lines have been streamlined and simplified, products redesigned to lower cost, etc. They have even sold the use of their name for use by other (completely non related) companies. Although this is not unique to Bosch; it is typical of most (all?) major parts manufacturers as the market becomes more and more global. Therefore you will find all levels of product quality with the same label, part number, packaging, appearance, etc. Unfortunately the selling prices do not necessarily reflect the quality differences, as many distributors set their own prices regardless of what they pay for it. As if that wasn't enough, the industry has become saturated with "knock-off" counterfeit products; they look just like the real thing but made at extremely low cost/quality. Even the original manufacturers have a difficult time recognizing some of them, so they end up getting mixed in with the 'real' supply. Kind of a crap shoot what you will get...but as I say, this is true for MOST big brand names.
 
Jeff,

That was a depressing reply, I have to say. :) I'm aware of the corporate trend, but I guess I was fooled by that nice Germanic name. To be clear I really don't know why the filter was dry-ish inside, but the drain back valve is a likely culprit. When I pulled off the one I put on a couple years ago, finding it dry, I went ahead and installed ANOTHER Bosch, which I had on hand. But just an hour ago I bought a K&N. I'll spin that on tonight. If it's dry too in a year, I'll know maybe it wasn't the filter. The car seems OK. I'm about to start work on smoothing the body, which is rough, but it runs like a top.

Thanks.
 
Probably the filter's bypass valve was faulty rather than drain-back valve. Since you already have the other Bosch filter on, run it for a little bit (checking oil pressure carefully) before removing. Then see if it is also dry. Most likely the other filter was defective, so the second one is o.k. But it will be a good check.

I've heard of this before with filters from various companies, so it can happen.
 
I had a K&N filter come off completely dry after 3k miles on my Sienna. I was not happy. The engine seemed to be fine but I was pretty disappointed.

Recently installed a Bosch on the X and didn’t see any difference in the way it behaved compared to the old Framm from a few years ago, almost immediate shut off of the oil light using Valvoline VR Racing oil.
 
It's my understanding that a oil filter bypass valve can cause this. Many oil filters have a bypass valve designed to protect in the case of a really dirty filter that gets clogged. In that situation the bypass allows unfiltered oil to return to the engine rather than no oil due to the blockage. Not all oil filters have them, but for the ones that do there are different designs of valves; they may bypass at different threshold levels of pressure differential (e.g. slight vs heavy blockage), or be located in different positions within the filter (inlet vs outlet), or other design differences, depending on the brand, specific filter model, or vehicle application. Although the bypass valve in a filter should not normally cause a dry filter, I've read where certain designs of them might do that if it falsely detects a blockage (high pressure differential), or the engine's oil pressure is below the threshold of the valve. Basically in these particular situations the valve was designed to return the unfiltered oil back to the engine at the filter's inlet, circumventing the whole filter element. So while a faulty valve with one filter design might give the "dry element" condition, one with another design won't. Replacing with another identical filter might solve it if the first one had a defective bypass valve. Or using a different brand or model of filter with a different bypass valve design should correct the problem.

If that was the reason for the dry filter then it isn't catastrophic. It simply means the oil wasn't filtered the whole time, but there was constant oil flow through the engine (the filter was bypassed the whole time). Not ideal but not the death of the engine. If you ever want to see examples of all the various types of oil filters and bypass valves, read descriptions of how they function, what can go wrong, and virtually every other aspect of oil filter technology, then start reading the "Bob the oil guy" forum. But be warned it will drive you crazy with all the back and forth arguing over which one is best and the endless tales of personal experiences. There are also some great online tutorials on the subject; I had several bookmarked on my old harddrive before it crashed. Here is one source that gives the basic specifications for many filters by filter part number (including the threshold pressure value for the bypass valve):
http://www.oilfilterdata.com/index.php

Otherwise a dry filter would indicate no oil was circulating, and you would have seen no oil pressure, and the engine would no longer be working.
 
Great info. I did end up just unscrewing the new Bosch I had just put on and put on the new K&N. I didn't see your suggestion. What's interesting is that I had pretty much filled the new Bosch with oil when I put it on a few days ago. I hadn't started the engine (the car is jacked way up in the rear because I'm degreasing and scraping to get it as clean as I can.) ANYWAY, when I took the filter off yesterday, it was virtually dry. The oil I had filled it with had run into the engine.
 
Fiatfiend said:
The oil I had filled it with had run into the engine.
Click to expand...
That seems to suggest the drain back valve you mentioned earlier. Different from the bypass valve, this one should keep oil in the filter at all times. The purpose is to assure there is oil available to feed the pump on start-up. If you filled the filter upon installing it and it drained out, then the valve did not work. Although not all filters have a drain back valve, so that could be a possibility (but I think the vast majority have one).

All in all your experiences with both filters suggest they may not have been something you want to use anyway. So best that you changed to another type filter.
As a side note, it seems the prices of Bosch brand filters has gone down (relative to other choices) in recent years. I remember they used to be on the higher end of the price range, but lately I've seen them on the lower end.
 
Well, good. Glad I might have done the right thing for once. Once the gunk cleanup is done, I'm starting on the body. The beginning of the end of the work is in sight!
 
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