Original 1986 Fuel Injectors

[Tavalin]

I don’t know how many of you remember when I purchased Gary’s X1/9 it had no power. I called the original owner and he stated that it pretty much had been like that the whole time he owned it for about 26-27 years.
Now, what a bunch of folks here noticed was that the distributor was 90 degrees out and the timing was also 90 degrees out. FiatFriend came over and helped me spin the flywheel and set the timing and all of a sudden the X1/9 came to life.
Now, fast forward a few years...
I recently changed the original fuel injectors and what I just noticed is really strange and supports the original owner’s statement.

What I noticed is the difference in color of the tips. Two are complete blackened from being exposed to heat for over 33 years and two are still mostly orange. That means two fuel injectors were exposed to heat while the other two where just spitting fuel into the head and not igniting.
Thought this was strange and I believe that I am correct in my assessment.

Now, the X1/9 is strong and redlines when needed. Going to send these to Matt and hopefully he can rebuild them for use in somebody’s X1/9. Original 33+ year old rebuilt fuel injectors would be great to have.
Anyway, thought you guys would like to see the difference in the injectors.
Mike

 

[kmead]

You could send them to be cleaned and balanced to have the same output. It will cost you about a hundred bucks and would be a nice backup for 27 years from now when the next owner runs into the same problem

 

[Ryan59]

Those look like Multek injectors. Many manufactures used them from the mid 1980’s to the end of 1996. Jon at injection connection has post several YouTube videos showing Multeks at their finest. A Bosch generation 3 is a drop in and does a superb job at atomizing fuel, something unknown to Multeks. Jon sells matched sets, a matched set for my 1995 Corvette cost $150 add shipping. After starting the engine takes a few minutes to adjust then really smooths out. Throttle response improved considerably.

I don’t know how many of you remember when I purchased Gary’s X1/9 it had no power. I called the original owner and he stated that it pretty much had been like that the whole time he owned it for about 26-27 years.
Now, what a bunch of folks here noticed was that the distributor was 90 degrees out and the timing was also 90 degrees out. FiatFriend came over and helped me spin the flywheel and set the timing and all of a sudden the X1/9 came to life.
Now, fast forward a few years...
I recently changed the original fuel injectors and what I just noticed is really strange and supports the original owner’s statement.
View attachment 23588
What I noticed is the difference in color of the tips. Two are complete blackened from being exposed to heat for over 33 years and two are still mostly orange. That means two fuel injectors were exposed to heat while the other two where just spitting fuel into the head and not igniting.
Thought this was strange and I believe that I am correct in my assessment.

Now, the X1/9 is strong and redlines when needed. Going to send these to Matt and hopefully he can rebuild them for use in somebody’s X1/9. Original 33+ year old rebuilt fuel injectors would be great to have.
Anyway, thought you guys would like to see the difference in the injectors.
Mike

 

[Ryan59]

 

[Jefco]

Same problem in my Volvo 145 with K-Jet injection, they all have to work equally to make power, and this may not be what you have now...
I got replacements for mine...

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

Those look like Multek injectors.

Nope. The pictured injectors are original to the car. You can still see the Bosch part numbers in the while plastic upper section.

 

[Ryan59]

Soot on the two tips could be caused by reversion. Either those two intake valves are not closing all the way, valve lash needs adjusted. Valve seats are worn or valve face or combination of the two. On compression stroke some compression is blowing back in the intake.

 

[Tavalin]

Soot on the two tips could be caused by reversion. Either those two intake valves are not closing all the way, valve lash needs adjusted. Valve seats are worn or valve face or combination of the two. On compression stroke some compression is blowing back in the intake.

Ryan59,
Could that also happen if the engine was set to TDC #1 spark plug? It actually ran but terrible. The distributor was 180 degrees out as well. I figure it was running on two cylinders for a few years before I got it and set the engine back to TDC #4 piston and reset the distributor to the original setting.
I ran it a couple of days before Matt noticed from a pic the distributor out and that prompted me to look closer at pics and timing. Before this new issue it rad wonderful. Plenty of power.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Ryan59]

I read those posts, just incredible someone could drive the car running as it was. Personally I wouldn’t give the color of the injector nozzle much concern. Carbon can build up around the injectors over miles, to the point where build-up varnish encapsulates the injector nozzles. My ‘97 Suburban for example, I had to pull the intake and spend two days cleaning all the buildup from the intake runners and injector placement holes before A new injector spider could be installed.

Injectors can be opened with a 9v battery or DC voltage under 12V and spray carburetor cleaner backwards through the injector to remove debris. Try to spray over a white sheet of paper to see what comes out. Typical to see lots of small particles that make it past the filter. I guess when filters begin to clog, pressure forces particles through the filter media.

 

[Tavalin]

I read those posts, just incredible someone could drive the car running as it was. Personally I wouldn’t give the color of the injector nozzle much concern. Carbon can build up around the injectors over miles, to the point where build-up varnish encapsulates the injector nozzles. My ‘97 Suburban for example, I had to pull the intake and spend two days cleaning all the buildup from the intake runners and injector placement holes before A new injector spider could be installed.

Injectors can be opened with a 9v battery or DC voltage under 12V and spray carburetor cleaner backwards through the injector to remove debris. Try to spray over a white sheet of paper to see what comes out. Typical to see lots of small particles that make it past the filter. I guess when filters begin to clog, pressure forces particles through the filter media.

Ryan59,
So, basically, two injectors are slightly used and two were working and also 33+ years old. I have changed colors as I have gotten old as well...lol
I have all new injectors so I should be fine once I get the timing right. At the moment the X1/9 is kicking my butt with setting timing. I will get figured out with the help of the great folks here.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Ryan59]

Initial start timing should be 10° BTDC. First thing is make sure TDC mark on the harmonic balancer is correct. I think the flywheel has the TDC mark on the X1/9. Timing anything begins with removing spark plugs. Rotate engine with finger or compression tool in #1 plug hole feeling for the compression stroke. Upon compression slowly rotate piston to Top Dead Center, look for timing mark. Mark #1 spark plug wire at the distributor cap as #1. Remove the cap to see where the distributor rotor is pointing. Mark a line on the distributors outside body where the pointer is pointing. Marks are very important. Draw a line on the cap where #1 is. If the cap is black, put a piece of masking tape on there and put your line on the tape. So now the distributor body is marked where the rotor is pointing and the cap is marked where #1 wire is. With the cap back on those lines should be very close. Next remove the cap and rotate the engine in the direction it runs. Draw a rotation arrow on the outer body of the distributor or the cap, just for reference. Next look up the firing order for both the engine and distributor cap rotation. Write the numbers on both ends of the wires. Follow the books spark plug firing order. Install spark plugs and wires, start engine and have a timing light ready. At low idle with vacuum lines removed and capped, timing should be at 10°. If not, loosen and turn the distributor so it is. You can check full advance, today’s gas no more than 32°. Stopping full advance may mean working on the distributor internally to add a stop. Too much timing is usually a problem. The distributor is where it’s suppose to be at 10° start up. Do not Change that. To change total timing or full advance must be done inside on the advance plate. GM’s old HEI all advanced into the stratosphere. At 5500rom the HEI was still advancing. An ideal timing curve is 32° all in at 2300rpm. Most engines really like that. Good gas like 91 no eth you can run 36° all in at 2300rpm. Memorize those numbers 32° all-in by 2300rpm. The engine will pull it’s hardest with those numbers. Big block chevys to Dodge 440’s to Kawasaki KZ1000’s love that curve. I’m 60, stared working at a mechanic garage at age 15 after school. I worked 30 years for Boeing as a CNC machine technician. But have built many engines both for myself and others. Anyway look into what I’ve shared with you. That Fiat will be running strong in no time.

 

[Ryan59]

This guy says his engine likes 15° startup or initial timing. This affect total timing but he makes no mention of it. Some food for thought.

 

[Dan Sarandrea (Phila)]

This guy says his engine likes 15° startup or initial timing. This affect total timing but he makes no mention of it. Some food for thought.

This guy also knows that the SOHC in the X1/9 is set up (initial synchronization of the crank, cam, and distributor) from #4 cylinder, not #1. Once it's running you can set the ignition timing advance by clipping on to either #4 plug wire or #1 plug wire.