Paging the MegaSquirt Gods.

Dr.Auto

Dr.Auto

Matthew Walsh
Ok.... so here it goes. Any words of wisdom? Tips?

I really need to get my engine fired up and broke in finally. Unfortunately.... I've never had my MegaSquirt on anything else and so my experience is limited to building it, testing it, and wiring it to the car so far.

Running stock injectors, 11.1:1 comp ratio with a B-3 cam in a 1.5L. What kind of fuel pressure should I set it at? Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide a base map I can start with to at least start it up and burn the rings in without melting it to the ground?

Running MS-I V2.2...... mechanical dizzy timing for now. Running the Hyundai TPS as per the archives (thanks John Allen) I have not had any experience setting up a map for this and I'd like to break the engine in.... not blow it up.
Thanks
 
Hey... thanks :)
More info..... ! yay! I like to try to have it figured out before I blow stuff up. lol
 
Where to start.

Print out the start up and configuration from the MegManual then start adding the parameters into the program. If you have never done this before it will take a while. Follow the MegSquirt instructions along with having 2 fire extingusers on hand. There are no short cuts, every engine is a bit different. What you are shooting for is a smooth idle on a warmed up engine and proceed from there.

Did you do the complete install or was it already on the car?

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
I've assembled the entire system. just using the original pig tail connectors from old harness for the sensors. In the middle of finishing up the fuel cell install and fuel pump wiring before I can get ready for cranking the engine and playing with the megasquirt programming.
 
so i dug through the archives and found where someone said 190cc on the injectors. Don't know if that's right but It's all I have to work with right now.
Fired it up last night..... runs like crap. lol. The freaking laptop keeps going into offline mode when it starts so I can't really do any tuning..... Trying to make sense where they talk about the ignition stuff in the megasquirt manual about this. :cry:
 
Okay, start out this way

In the Constants menu:
Your required fuel for X1/9 injectors is going to be 15.0 Ms, and you will want to run 2 squirts simultaneous with the control algorithm being Speed Density. Most of the rest of settings on that page are either obvious or your application specific.

The VE table is highly dependent on your car and your setup. Like the MS Manual says, start with idling first, then work up.

Your figure of 190cc/min is high and will give you less controllable a mixture. The 15.0 Ms figure cited above is a good solid representation of X1/9 injectors. I do not know their flow rate, but it is similar to the 2000 Twin Cam injectors at 178cc/min. You are going to have some issues initially due to running the B3 cam, as it will not give you as strong a vacuum signal as other cam setups at idle. But, it can be done. My cam is nearly as hot and I can get a good solid idle at 1000 rpm. My idle is a bit finicky, as I have tried to lean it out as much as possible. I could run richer and get the idle to about 900 rpm, but it smells bad.

Good luck.
Ciao,
 
Camshaft.

Did you changed the camshaft?

If so you will have to go with TPS based map. as the Manifold Absolute Pressure map will be wagging all over the place.

On the screen take a look at the MAP value. If it is jumping all over the place and not steady you will not get a smooth idle as the controller is constantly changing the amount of fuel to compinsate.

Also the injectors you are using from stock are not as big at you might think. They are in the order of 168CC. You may have too much fuel. What about the O2 sensor, is it heated, narrow band or wide band? Do you have a CAT on the car?

Take a look at this link.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

It has a listing of Bosch fuel injectors. I don't have the Fiat X1/9 Bosch part number, but this will give you your flow rate of the injector.

Maybe someone else has the stock part number and can look up you flow rate.


Keep giving us info, the programing has only begun.

TonyK
Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
A Cat? meow? whats that? I live in Montana. lol

It's a race car... I made the mistake of tearing the entire car down to absolutely nothing and rebuilding everything except the transaxle as of right now. been three years since i drove it! ahhhh!

Ya... the car won't idle to save it's life. And yes the map reading is all over because of the cam.
But right now I really think I need to figure out why my computer kicks into offline mode as soon as the car starts up. Because then I can't even monitor anything on the laptop in tunerstudio MS... but whats weird is the origional megatune MS1 code program usually still works.

Oh yeah.... I'm running the stock X-1/9 O2 sensor for right now. I have a good used AirFuel ratio sensor from a 2005 Durango I thought of using.... But we'll see. I might just get a new wideband.
 
Don't worry about injector flow rates till later.....

The stock X1/9 injectors are good to about 120-125 HP using the Bosch fuel pump and stock X1/9 regulator. Leave that stuff alone for now, and use the known Constants factors in MegaSquirt to get a baseline. The 15.0 Ms fuel setting is well established on a number of cars with stock(like) fuel injection setups, including mine.

There are just so many things to change in MS that having a couple of known good values is most important.

As to the injector flow rates listed by Stan Weiss' table, I believe they are in error. I found a table of seemingly every Bosch injector ever made with full specs on a Volkswagen Rally Team website. Interestingly, the table I found does show a flow difference between the 0-280-150-123 injectors used in the X and the 0-280-150-121 injectors used for 2000 Spider Twin Cam, BUT the table also shows them rated at different pressures 250 kPa and 300 kPa respectively. When the flow rates are normalized, the flow is almost the same, with the main differences being in spray pattern angle and the length of the hose on the injector.

But, back to MegaSquirt, remember that there are NO absolutes in MegaSquirt. Everything is configurable. That is both a blessing and a curse. So, injector flow rate means little as long as you are close, because you can change the overall milliseconds the injectors open (longer is generally better for control reasons) on the Constants page or you can change the entire VE table which controls the percentage open time, both the same effect.

Take logs of the engine in operation and get to know MegaLogViewer. It is a powerful tool that really works best with a wide band O2 sensor. I have learned to read and understand my engine's operating conditions really well. I am down to tweaking cells in my VE table no more than about 2% at a time. And, although I have my car running off an A/F ratio table, if I removed that control and feedback control altogether, the car would still run great, as the VE table is that close.

And do not give up. You will get so frustrated that you want to pitch the whole works. (Ask me how I know.) But, you will learn the parameters, how they affect the operation, what they do and how to control them. Hang in there and keep plugging. You will be able to make your car run much better and much cleaner than you ever could with carburetors, with no flat spots, no balkiness, and great horsepower.

Matt, if you are ever down in Oregon, stop by. I will put you behind the wheel of my little 1300 X and amaze you.

Ciao,
 
Mark,
Thanks for the words of encouragement.

I think I may have to go back into the ECU and change a few things.My ECT seams to be off a little bit and looking at assembly instructions it says what resistor to swap in for what type of sensor. I must have the GM2.5K ohm instead of the 2.2k ohm for the bosch.
I also have noticed that whatever transistor it is that provides the pull down for the fuel pump relay is not providing a good ground....not quite enough to trip the relay so I've been jumping the relay manually.
And finally after reading through the instructions some more it seams as though I may have to change the XG1/XG2 opto-isolator connection in the ECU since I am pulling my tach sig for the ecu right off of my 4-pin GM style HEI ignition module. I thought it might work since I have a cap on my MSD blaster coil... but it seams as though some folks have problems just like me with the ECU resetting and making the laptop go off line because of all this. huh...
In any case this things is running pig rich and I think I will start another read of the manual. lol
So can anyone elaborate on this TPS based map? is that the other option over speed density that I saw? Ya I don't know... but this cam does sound pretty lumpy. lol

Mark.... If I can get my little Dallara wannabe running I though I might try to show up to that Oregon meet you guys have. I'd love so see you're snotty 1300.... I just really need to get this thing moving by itself again then it becomes that much easier to work on it.

Thanks for all the help so far

Even though I have checked my cam timing multiple times I still wonder about it....just cause it seams...off. But I can't keep it running long enough to verify ignition timing and the fact that it runs so rich and has that B3 cam who knows... This is the most radical cam I've installed in a 4cyl so I might just not be used to the idle issue with the big cam.... I'm usually playing with V-tec lump sticks and they idle fine for some reason. lol
 
Coming up in July.....

Mark.... If I can get my little Dallara wannabe running I though I might try to show up to that Oregon meet you guys have. I'd love so see you're snotty 1300....

That would be great. I will put you on the track.
IMG_5282_CR2.jpg

BTW, that is Gregory's X right over my LR fender.

Ciao,
 
Dr.Auto said:
And finally after reading through the instructions some more it seams as though I may have to change the XG1/XG2 opto-isolator connection in the ECU since I am pulling my tach sig for the ecu right off of my 4-pin GM style HEI ignition module.
Click to expand...

one phrase comes to mind..... "Dave Cap" (look it up in the MegaManual). This must be added to a v2.2 board when using the stock ignition or you will have a bouncing tach signal and NEVER get fueling correct at idle. The opto-isolator will not correct this condition.
 
ok... this is where I am... I am still not convinced that cam/ignition timing is correct on this car. Something just doesn't seam right. I've checked the timing multiple times and I keep coming up with the same thing thats supposedly correct.... but it just doesn't seam right.
I have no mark on the flywheel to referance. And the crank mark does no seam to line up with the plastic timing cover when I set the cyl TDC using dial indicator through spark plug hole.
So.... Does this engine set cam timing when in the TDC position? I know that Subaru sets most of their engines with the crank at 90deg from TDC and that's where all the marks line up. Does the 1.5L do the same thing possibly? Is the crank really at maybe 25deg past TDC when the crank mark is supposed to line up? Because when I built the engine I set the crank at TDC and then lined the cam up using the "divot" on cam pulley lined up with the tit on the top of the engine mount. At the time I really didn't even look for any marks on the crank or care because I just assumed that all the marks would be based off TDC.
And now what is making me question all this is although I stabbed the dizzy right in at the TDC mark it won't run in that position. I have to advance the timing by about 60deg for it to seam to fire in the correct phasing.
So can someone please elaborate and tell me if the crank really is in the TDC position when properly lining up the cam timing marks? Because timing just isn't right.... I just know it. :mad3:
 
TDC

Remember this engine is timed to #4 not to #1.

Marks on the Flywheel at the bell housing and the Crank are at TDC.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
ok... I have to clear this up.... I know it has to be timed off #4.... but really TDC is TDC....weather it's #4 or #1 right? Both pistons are at TDC at the same time. What differentiates Which is which is the cam timing weather the cam is at zero degrees or at 180degrees. On this engine cam mark of zero degrees should be the timing mark for lining up #4 at TDC. And when #4 is at TDC compression stroke #1 is at TDC exhaust stroke. Flip the cam 180deg and you have #1 at TDC compression and #4 TDC exhuast stroke. 360deg rotation cam and 720deg rotation on crank for a complete cycle. Just like 90% of all in line 4cyl's on the planet except that they Zero the cam mark in the #4 TDC compression stroke instead of #1. I do have this correct don't I?
So having said all that I have lightened the flywheel on a lathe.... it has no TDC marks on it anymore.
If I set #4TDC compression, based off of cam being at zero mark and #4 piston at TDC referanced with a dial indicator on the piston through the spark plug hole. Then the crank pulley mark IS NOT lined up with the TDC mark on the plastic timing cover. It is at about 330degrees out of 360 degrees of rotation from TDC.

So this tells me that the crank pulley is incorrect(which is hard to believe cause it's solid metal) or the mark on the crank pulley is not really a TDC mark even though the Haynes manual says it is. How in the world does it work out that I set TDC using the most accurate method on the planet with a dial indicator on the piston and the suposed TDC mark on the crank pulley doesn't line up?:huh2:
 
Pictures.

There is also a metal timing mark. The plastic timing cover mark is in line, however I normally don't have the covers on when I check for timing belt alignment.
P5080163a.jpg


P5080165a.jpg

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Ok.... what I've done is found TDC #4 with a dial indicator. Then I marked the fly wheel with a referance mark. looks like this.

Picture.jpg


When I have this lined up like that then we look at the cam.

Picture016.jpg


when these are lined up like that we look at the crank pulley and this is what we have.

Picture017.jpg


Now that crank pulley is at something like 11:00 in order for it to line up with the timing cover mark it needs to be at something like 1:00

what is up with that?
 
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