Just like to know if anyone here has ever installed a Fiat Punto GT engine and gearbox into an X19. If so, would like to know about the snail side engine mount and gearbox mount modifications that were made. I know that the snail side engine mount points are still on the block but the cam belt cover will need some cutting to fit the mount, and that the cambox needs to be changed to suit top dogbone engine mount but I have no info on the bottom cross member gearbox mount modifications. Be great to know if anyone has done this conversion with pictures.
Punto GT engine conversion
- Thread starter Anthonyp
- Start date
Janis
True Classic
If some kind of adapter is needed, I can share DWG file to You with engine and gearbox mounting points.
@rachaeljf Might know answer to your question.
@rachaeljf Might know answer to your question.
I am not vary familiar with the Punto engine, but is this Stilo 1.8 16V swap that @My1stCar is working towards similar to what you are researching?
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
Punto GT is the same 1.4l engine as in Uno Turbo MK2 I think. No mods necessary, Engine and box should fit in a X1/9 with stock mounts. However, the (C510) gearbox is cable shifted.
Hi Bjorn, Yes I know that it is same as mk2 uno turbo but the cam box still needs to be changed for dogbone mount and I read that the cam belt pulleys plastic cover next to side snail mount may need to be cut a little bit (easy work) But using the punto gt gearbox I know that the bottom mount or cross member needs some modifications to suit gearbox
My1stCar
Daily Driver
The Punto 2nd generation (188) HGT (the H is important here) is the same naturally aspirated 1.8 engine as the Stilo (with a different tune version) but different from the 1.4 turbo of the 1st generation Punto (176) GT
Below a comparison of the power/torque curves from automobile-catalog.com:
rachaeljf
True Classic
It was some time ago, but I seem to recall welding extension pieces to the lower mounting plate and redrilling to match the available threaded holes in the PGT gearbox. Also as I recall, the PGT box has a combination of rod and cable gear selection. On my Eurosport car I used an X1/9 box with a machined out bellhousing and UT Mk2 flywheel and clutch. I am now proposing to use a Stilo 1.6 16V engine and box in the blue Dallara, the PGT box is similar.
This is from distant memory but I think in summary the required work is:
Reprofile the inner wheel arch to clear the gearbox as it is taller around the end cover.
Re profile the lower engine mounting plate to match the available bolting points on the bellhousing.
Fabricate a suitable twin cable change - use an MGF gear stick assembly, either take the cables backwards under the sump and loop them up and towards the gear selector assembly, this reflects the cables approaching from the rear as they would in the FWD car. Alternatively bring the cables up and over the bellhousing and modify the gear selector assembly for the different approach angles. This is tricky as you have to work around the clutch slave. For either solution, be mindful of the way the selector is operated so you don't get a mirrored gate layout or 5 reverse gears and one forward!
Fit the snail mount with 2-3mm spacers to approximate the thickness of the X1/9's end cover plate, the PGT engine doesn't have this plate.
Fit the X1/9 cam housing for the dogbone mount. You may need to modify the dogbone to clear the inlet manifold, or modify the manifold.
Use the X1/9 sump and oil pump pickup, or live with the PGT sump at slightly the wrong angle.
The PGT engine was developed from the original Lampredi sohc engine. The Bravo/Stilo 1.6 16V engine was the last iteration, with block modified for a twin cam head with a slightly different head bolt layout; the block is outwardly similar to the original Lampredi sohc but annoyingly, only one snail mount hole has remained. The TC head will not fit the original sohc block.
@JimD - As My1stcar says, the 1.8 16V engine is from a different engine family known as the Pratola Serra modular engine.
This is from distant memory but I think in summary the required work is:
Reprofile the inner wheel arch to clear the gearbox as it is taller around the end cover.
Re profile the lower engine mounting plate to match the available bolting points on the bellhousing.
Fabricate a suitable twin cable change - use an MGF gear stick assembly, either take the cables backwards under the sump and loop them up and towards the gear selector assembly, this reflects the cables approaching from the rear as they would in the FWD car. Alternatively bring the cables up and over the bellhousing and modify the gear selector assembly for the different approach angles. This is tricky as you have to work around the clutch slave. For either solution, be mindful of the way the selector is operated so you don't get a mirrored gate layout or 5 reverse gears and one forward!
Fit the snail mount with 2-3mm spacers to approximate the thickness of the X1/9's end cover plate, the PGT engine doesn't have this plate.
Fit the X1/9 cam housing for the dogbone mount. You may need to modify the dogbone to clear the inlet manifold, or modify the manifold.
Use the X1/9 sump and oil pump pickup, or live with the PGT sump at slightly the wrong angle.
The PGT engine was developed from the original Lampredi sohc engine. The Bravo/Stilo 1.6 16V engine was the last iteration, with block modified for a twin cam head with a slightly different head bolt layout; the block is outwardly similar to the original Lampredi sohc but annoyingly, only one snail mount hole has remained. The TC head will not fit the original sohc block.
@JimD - As My1stcar says, the 1.8 16V engine is from a different engine family known as the Pratola Serra modular engine.
lidox19
True Classic
Anthony,
The X1/9 cam belt cover and back plate will fit the Punto block so use that and it will clear the snail mount.
Cam box swaps over for the dogbone mount.
If you can find an original 1300 X1/9 gearbox mount with the extension for the exhaust mount you can straighten the dogleged part of the extension and drill the mount for the Punto GT gearbox rearmost bolt hole.
That probably does not make much sense without pictures. I have this setup on an engine test bed in storage. I'll see if I can get some photos at the weekend.
I think Rachel is correct that the gearbox uses one rod and one cable selector, I will check on that as well. However the Alfa 147 1.6 uses the same box (different bellhousing) with two cables for the selector. The gearbox selector could be transferred to the GT box.
147 gearbox.
Inlet manifold vs dogbone. Do you have a GT1,2 or 3 engine? GT1 has the ICV on the cam cover ,2 & 3 have the ICV on the top of the throttle body part of the inlet manifold. If you have a GT 1 you will need to modify the area where the pipework from the ICV enters the manifold as it is right next to the body end of the dogbone. If you have a gt2 or 3 this is not an issue but if you are planning on using a 1300 engine cover the ICV will not let you close the cover. The whole assembly is too tall. I don't know about the 1500 engine cover.
As Rachel says the left hand chassis rail needs some modification to fit the GT gearbox. The link below will explain. This guy has done the conversion.
www.fiatforum.com
Hope this helps.
Look forward to seeing this project develop.
Regards
Andy
The X1/9 cam belt cover and back plate will fit the Punto block so use that and it will clear the snail mount.
Cam box swaps over for the dogbone mount.
If you can find an original 1300 X1/9 gearbox mount with the extension for the exhaust mount you can straighten the dogleged part of the extension and drill the mount for the Punto GT gearbox rearmost bolt hole.
That probably does not make much sense without pictures. I have this setup on an engine test bed in storage. I'll see if I can get some photos at the weekend.
I think Rachel is correct that the gearbox uses one rod and one cable selector, I will check on that as well. However the Alfa 147 1.6 uses the same box (different bellhousing) with two cables for the selector. The gearbox selector could be transferred to the GT box.
147 gearbox.
Inlet manifold vs dogbone. Do you have a GT1,2 or 3 engine? GT1 has the ICV on the cam cover ,2 & 3 have the ICV on the top of the throttle body part of the inlet manifold. If you have a GT 1 you will need to modify the area where the pipework from the ICV enters the manifold as it is right next to the body end of the dogbone. If you have a gt2 or 3 this is not an issue but if you are planning on using a 1300 engine cover the ICV will not let you close the cover. The whole assembly is too tall. I don't know about the 1500 engine cover.
As Rachel says the left hand chassis rail needs some modification to fit the GT gearbox. The link below will explain. This guy has done the conversion.
solving gear linkage when fitting Uno Turbo in my X1/9 | FIAT X1/9
Anyone done the conversion and fitted a Uno Turbo engine into an X1/9 with the Uno Turbo gear box and got pictures on how the solution on making the gear linkage work on the car. As the Turbo gearbox has the linkage on top of the gearbox and the X1/9 in the front of the engine? I've been told...
www.fiatforum.com
Look forward to seeing this project develop.
Regards
Andy
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
Or just use a cam drive end mount from an 1100cc 128, it's already has that 3mm built into it, as the 1100 engines also don't have a water jacket plate.
SteveC
Alex(Tenerife)
True Classic
Anthony did you get anywhere with your punto GT turbo project?
I found this thread as I was contemplating using punto GT ECU and sensors with my uno turbo. The goal started as using slightly bigger injectors and on the uno they are about 155 and on the punto I think they are 249.
uno turbo stock is 105 bhp and punto gt turbo is 136 bhp for what is almost the same engine.
I read a post on fiat forum where someone claims to have done it, but its an old thread and all the pictures have gone.
Yes ideally something like omex solves all my issues but thought this might be a cheaper solution to a reliable hp gain
I found this thread as I was contemplating using punto GT ECU and sensors with my uno turbo. The goal started as using slightly bigger injectors and on the uno they are about 155 and on the punto I think they are 249.
uno turbo stock is 105 bhp and punto gt turbo is 136 bhp for what is almost the same engine.
I read a post on fiat forum where someone claims to have done it, but its an old thread and all the pictures have gone.
Yes ideally something like omex solves all my issues but thought this might be a cheaper solution to a reliable hp gain
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Alex, I'd consider going with a aftermarket ECU (e.g. like the Omex you referenced, or any other) instead of the later factory ECU. There's a LOT to be gained from a fully programmable ECU that you won't get from the factory one. In the end it may prove to be little difference in cost as well. Although that is more true for USA members where we cannot readily get the factory parts.
On a side note, the X's injectors (USA FI models) were considerably larger than the MK1 UT injectors. While the UT is a smaller engine (1300 vs 1500), it is also boosted where the X isn't. So it is very odd that the UT had such small injectors. There are also some direct fit aftermarket injectors available in a couple of different sizes that can be used. Combined with a aftermarket ECU you can crank up the boost and remain safe.
Alex(Tenerife)
True Classic
It is as you say down to cost.
To give an idea, I found this on ebay yesterday
punto gt turbo ecu only £85 on a buy now
OMEX600 ecu seems to be good option here, I know a couple of people who have them, £800 just for the ECU
That is not a small difference.
I believe they also have a socketable chip in the punto ECU.
Right now it's a thought experiment, but if this is a cheap way to loose the AFM, gain some power and maybe loose the squealing FSE fuel regulator that would be a win
To give an idea, I found this on ebay yesterday
punto gt turbo ecu only £85 on a buy now
OMEX600 ecu seems to be good option here, I know a couple of people who have them, £800 just for the ECU
That is not a small difference.
I believe they also have a socketable chip in the punto ECU.
Right now it's a thought experiment, but if this is a cheap way to loose the AFM, gain some power and maybe loose the squealing FSE fuel regulator that would be a win
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Ya, aftermarket ECUs can be pricey. The high end stuff gets ridiculously expensive. But there are some more affordable options. Here in the US a decent one starts around $300 (USD). And I've heard there's a couple options in Europe that aren't bad. If you are into technology there's even a few DIY projects going that utilize things like a Arduino for very little money.
Initially when I began collecting parts to convert my X's US spec FI (1500) engine to a turbo I had the same thought as you. For simplicity, reliability, and cost reasons I planned on using a Mk1 UT exhaust manifold and turbo, complete with all of the stock factory components (ECU, sensors, etc). In fact one of my main project goals is to see just how affordable I could build a turbo system for the X. But the more I learned about it I completely changed my mind on the factory controls (ECU, etc). Especially once I found the more affordable aftermarket ECU available over here (MegaSquirt's "Microsquirt"). The rest of the components needed for that ECU were also very affordable, and getting any Fiat factory parts from later models is quite difficult (and costly) here. The more I developed the project I more I realized the benefits of going aftermarket....honestly I'd not do otherwise for any future projects.
Frankly I'm not too familiar with the later factory (PGT) ECU and system. I assumed it was not chippable, but if it is then consider the cost of the chip as well. Although even with a chip it will be more limited than a fully programmable standalone unit. Does the PGT use something like a MAF or MAP? Some MAF systems aren't a whole lot better than ones with a AFM, but again, I'm not sure what the PGT has. Also find out just how compatible the PGT system is with your whole setup (as you asked initially).
I realize you are in the planning stages, so I'm only throwing out my thoughts on it. Your situation is very different from mine. I'll be interested to hear what you learn.
Does the oil sump and pick up actually cause any issues on the road or turning ? Or is it a slight difference in angle ?
Are you running the punto gt oil sump and pick up in your x19 ?
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
I can tell that this is not a problem with a stock Punto GT/Uno T pickup and a X1/9 oil sump even on track with a lot of G's. But overfill with 5 mm if going to the tacetrack to be on the safe side.
Ok thanks Bjorn.
So why Not use the Punto GT sump also?
Do I have to change to x19 sump ?
Alex(Tenerife)
True Classic
I found on my UT conversion that if you change the sump, you needed to change the pickup arm of the oil pump to match the sump else it didn't line up with the sump baffle