Question on (1980 Carbed - 1500) Turbo-Charging

Mark in Syracuse

Mark in Syracuse

Daily Driver
On ebay there is a turbo kit for sale and was wondering what the experts thought of this and whether it would work for my car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fiat...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

When I do go ahead and get the 1980 road worthy again I would like to improve engine performance to give the car better acceleration...I know about removing weight (the biggest problem with weight now is that of the driver:) since the last time I drove the car I weighed in at about 140, now pushing 205 I guess I could drive naked and lose 5 lbs there:eek:)

But seriously...I would appreciate thoughts on a kit like this. It does not say whether it is intended for a fuel injected car...( I am not a mechanic but would certainly like to assist in the mechanical portions of the rebuild) I have changed the brakes, oil, front hood latch, outside door handle, emergency cable, cleared carb jets, all fairly simple but part of my road side mechanic experience, but certainly not qualified to put a turbo on my car or judge whether this kit would be suited for my car.
 
I don't know about the kit but unless you really hate yourself don't turbo a carb. If you are going to do all that work make life a little easier and install programmable FI.
 
That kit doesn't look like it would work on any X I've ever seen. Also that turbo looks way too big.

Would programmable FI be available in a kit form? and if so, where?
Click to expand...

Most use Megasquirt but it's certainly not a bolt on kit. All of this requires a fair amount of technical know-how or at least the willingness to spend a lot of time learning. Adding forced induction is not something you do casually.
 
Took a closer look at the kit.

It has a T3/T4 hybrid turbo which is rather large for your application. Most people use Uno turbo parts from Europe. I believe the Uno Turbo used a T2 turbo. The air to air intercooler looks just about worthless for an X.

Realistically you will need the turbo and manifold off an Uno, a custom exhaust, the FI manifold and related components from a late X (Yugo, Uno etc. should work too), A programmable FI system w/ wide band 02 sensor, an upgraded head gasket and preferably turbo pistons. A water to air intercooler would be nice too. You can get away with less but in my opinion it's not worth it.
 
This kit has been discussed before (I think here:huh:) and its universally agreed that your better off lighting you money on fire. That way atleast your car will stay safe and you'll accomplish the same thing. Unless the description has changed IIRCC the add wreaked of phony "universal" type rubbish...kinda like the "automatic transmission filter kit FOR Fiat X1/9" you see on eBay:rolleyes:
 
It sure looks nice...

The turbo is much to big, you need a much smaller one.

I decided to do a turbo conversion as well, however, I did the Uno Turbo route instead. Big difference. Honda drivability to the store but when you push real far on the gas, it really goes.

You can make a kit like this work, it will take a bit of time and some programming to get all the kinks out.

The uno turbo is a nice deal but remember, it is already 20+ years old, and todays technology has improved quite a bit.

There are a number of carb options (such as SteveC's single DCNF) and others which with a nice cam will provide more umph. Do a bit of work to the head and the compression ratio will rise and give you even more.

You would be surprised what even 10hp extra does to these cars.

Hope this helps.

Eric
 
Matthew said:
That kit doesn't look like it would work on any X I've ever seen. Also that turbo looks way too big.

Most use Megasquirt but it's certainly not a bolt on kit. All of this requires a fair amount of technical know-how or at least the willingness to spend a lot of time learning. Adding forced induction is not something you do casually.
Click to expand...

^^^^^ I concur with all of this! ^^^^^ I've got a friend with a 240Z that has a later 280Z turbo engine in it as a base for a huge buildup. He's gone to a stand alone Haltec computer because the stock system ECU isn't adjustable... and things like rising rate fuel pressure regulators are truly 'stop-gap' type solutions that aren't very tunable or reliable at even moderate boost levels. On the way to over 400 horsepower at the rearwheels he's blown 2 or 3 motors up, and changed countless components getting things 'right'.

The turbo in this eBay kit is close in size to what he has on his highboost 2.8 liter motor! I think its WAY WAY WAY too big for a 1.5 liter motor, especially if you want any sort of throttle response.

Personally, I find 'electrics' a bit intimidating, but my friend took what was originally a 'carb' car, and added all the sensors he'd need, and ran all the wiring on his car to hook the Haltec E6 (I think that's what he's running) up to the motor to control the ignition/fuel injection. Like most things I think it just takes time to lay things out and run them right, one wire at a time.

(The price of all of this can be staggering.)
 
It's a nice looking kit, but not $1000 nice. There seem to be a lot of bits in there that are nothing more than engine dress-up pieces, and quite a few things that would never get used on an X. The intercooler is WAY too big to easily fit anywhere in our cars (except maybe the rear trunk) and front mounting is a really bad idea. The longer the routing for the charged air, the bigger the lag. Same thing with turbo size. Bigger turbo generally means bigger lag. That being said, I'm not so sure that a T3 would be too big for our cars. Probably not the best choice, but I would have to go back and try to dig up all the maps I used to have to find the most optimal solution for the 1500 engine.

Now for the real killer for your application. Others have already stated that you should go with fuel injection to get the most out of something like this. They're right. Weber carbs HATE to be force-fed. It has been done, though. Seen it on a carbbed Yugo, but even they admitted that it wasn't easy to make it work and was pretty finickey at times.

If you really want to go turbo, it can be done. But it's not cheap and it's not easy. But it sure is fun!
 
Unless yur into PAIN, the answer is NO!

No, no, no!

I'm just too tired and old to explain... and its 4 am... But take OUR word for it!
 
lol, I agree... it's only worth it if you want to build it... because it isn't cost-effective for power, and since the car won't be "stock" after that you may as well go for a used engine conversion.

however, if you want to make it just for fun and have some money to spend, it would be a good project.

here's a T2, manifolds / mating surfaces would have to be all re-done http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rebu...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

this might work too: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T25-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I always thought of using a turbo with a carb as a cheaper route, but to be honest I don't fully understand the tuning considerations there... I know you can't pressurize a carb, so you need to draw through it.. like [air filter]->[carb]->[turbo]->[intake manifold]->[engine]

like this: http://www.newprotest.org/projects/510/turbo_L.pl
 
You can put the carb after the turbo but it needs to be inside a box so the the outside of the float bowls are subject to the same pressure as the inside. This set up allows you to use an intercooler. This is the way early Maserati Biturbos were. Not something I would want to spend my time trying to engineer when FI is so cheap and readily available.
 
very interesting...

Matthew said:
You can put the carb after the turbo but it needs to be inside a box so the the outside of the float bowls are subject to the same pressure as the inside. This set up allows you to use an intercooler. This is the way early Maserati Biturbos were. Not something I would want to spend my time trying to engineer when FI is so cheap and readily available.
Click to expand...

So if I built an air-tight box around my 34 DMTR right where it sits on the intake manifold, and pressurized it, it would theoretically work the same? wild... a little pressure vessel around the carb.... sounds easy enough (choke..gag.....laugh....)
 
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