Questions aboout de-smoging and removing manifolds

Lambertta X1/9

Lambertta X1/9

Michael L
Hi, I don't if any of you remember but right before FFO my X was blowing smoke, overheating and losing power. Well I finally did a compression test and had 150's in all cylinders, so I'm assuming the head gasket is fine...right? So I'm running on the assumption my cat is plugged. I have an ANSA exhaust and older used Vicks header that I decided to install. I also thought I'd take this opportunity to de-smog and install a Weber 34 DAT carb (from Jim Decker).

The removal of old muffler and cat went fine, but I'm having an awful time getting the exhaust manifold and carb manifold off. I think I have removed all nuts, 3 on the exhaust and 4 on the carb manifold. Am I missing some??? the things won't budge! Could it be glued on with some gasket sealer? More bolts? Any help, advice, pics would be much appreciated!

I have also removed the gulp valve and almost all of the EGR valve. I have an euro carb manifold to install (from Dave May) and the new carb. What else should I remove and how (with what) do I plug whats left?

Thanks in advance for any and all help, I hope I didn't get in over my head.

Michael
Oh, its a 1980!
 
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No, not in over your head

No, not in over your head. It's just that the manifolds can be very damn recalcitrant if they haven't been off any time in the past thirty years. The gaskets seal like glue, and the studs corrode onto the manifolds.

Four nuts on the intake manifold (overlapping the exhaust manifold) and three more on the exhaust manifold is right. Once you've gotten the nuts off, it's a brute-strength problem from there.

If you haven't removed the carb and the plasticky heat-shield thing from the intake manifold, do so (also disconnect the downpipe from the exhaust manifold). Now you can use a block of wood and Fiat tool BFH (one good whack, a pattern of light taps, another good whack) on the top of the intake manifold to break the seal. Try forcing a putty knife or a gasket scraper into the seam between head and manifold, and then twisting. It's even permissible to pry a bit with a screwdriver.

If next weekend you're still stuck, drop me a line. You're about two hours drive from me, I might be able to swing by and give you a hand with it.
 
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Thanks Eric!

I thought about prying and whacking but was afraid to. I'll try it tomorrow. Thanks for the offer to come over, that is outstanding of you! Unfortunately I work the next two weekends, but if things don't work out I may have to see if I can work out a time with you. Hopefully all will go well tomorrow.

Thanks,
Michael
 
Does your engine blow smoke just before hard acceleration and on startup? What colour is the smoke? If your engine has never been rebuilt then you are probably due for at least new valve seals. I would suspect the valve seals over the cat at this time.
 
Blows on start up.

The smoke is white, Goes away after running awhile. I also smokes from engine bay burning of oil that has leaked on to exhaust manifold. The car has about 52,000 miles on it if that is important. The man I bought it from said he certified mechanic and had worked on FIAT's for 30 years. He said he replaced all gaskets, unsure of valve seals. Thanks for your reply Robert I will look into that.

Thanks,

Michael
 
Before you drop the manifolds, make sure you drop the coolant out of the block by undoing the drain plug located under the manifolds more or less in the middle of the engine block on that side.

If you don't then you run the risk of coolant / water running into the inlet ports and into the motor as you crack the inlet manifold as there are two water ports that run into the manifold from the head...I've seen more than a few motors wrecked by this and then being left to sit for a while... rusts the bores and sticks the rings in their grooves.

SteveC
 
Are you absolutly sure you are not getting coolant in your oil? What does your oil look like? The reason why I ask is that you are getting white smoke at start up. Does it smell like oil?
If the head gasket is ok then there are only a couple of other sources for water/oil mixing. The most common is using the wrong gasket on the thermostat housing. There is a hole in the upper left corner that must be covered by the gasket or coolant will leak into the oil system. Its a common mistake because both the right and wrong gaskets are provided in most gasket sets. The other reason is a cracked head and that hardly ever happens. I've heard of heads comming off in the shape of a banana and are still not cracked.
 
Some more solutions:

1. Liberal use of penetrating oil.

2. If possible, double-nut the studs and try to remove, but don't go uber-crazy because they thread into the aluminum head--if you can't get them out by double-nutting and easy-to moderate wrenching, then leave them alone. The more studs you can remove the more wiggle room you can generate.

3. Since you are replacing the intake, the current intake has become "expendable" so don't be bashful bashing on it with a block of wood and BFH (Big Fiat Hammer).

4. I would NOT use any tool whatsoever to try to make the initial break-away by forcing it in the joint between either manifold and the head. Two of those three surfaces are delicate aluminum. However it is OK to do some vigorous padded prying between the bodies of the intake and ex manifold themselves---if you can budge them away from themselves, then by definition you are also breaking them away from their seal to the head.

5. Remove the down pipe from the muffler/cat, install back onto the ex manifold, and use it as a handle to gorilla the manifold back and forth trying to break the seal to the head.

6. Use heat only if nothing else works and apply only from the bottom up, staying on the iron of the ex manifold and the engine block and away from the aluminum of the intake and the head.
 
Thanks Robert

No, I'm not sure if water is getting in the oil. The smoke does smell like oil. I will check the thermostat housing. Thanks so much for the info and that, maybe that's what the problem is, I hope...it would be so much better than the alternative.

Thanks for replies,

Mchael
 
Thanks Dan,

For input and great suggestions. I, unfortunately, did not get much time to work one this as I had hoped, life you know! It sometimes gets in the way, lol. I beat the hell out of them from various directions with a block of wood and a BFH, but never got them to budge. So, I soaked the hell out of them with PB Blaster and will try again, hopefully Sunday.

Thank you to everyone for your help, I very much appreciate it!!! Will keep you updated.

Michael
 
Carb Questions

I got the manifolds off and removed air pump and EGR . Plugged the water passage from the bock to the EGR. Got the Vicks style header on (actually its an Autosprint), had to jack the car WAY up and remove the alternator. Tried for several hours to put it in from the top through the old exhaust exit, but that does not work! haha Finally looked through old posts and found the right way to do it!!!

Anyway, will be putting the new carb (a 34 DAT) and carb manifold on tomorrow (weather permitting) and I have some questions.

Do I use the carb insulator plate that was on the old one? and if so, I guess I need to enlarge the holes to 34 mm, what the best way to do it?

Also, anybody used a 34 DAT? Do you have a diagram of what connects to what?

Thanks so so much,

Michael
 
Lambertta X1/9 said:
The smoke is white, Goes away after running awhile. I also smokes from engine bay burning of oil that has leaked on to exhaust manifold. The car has about 52,000 miles on it if that is important. The man I bought it from said he certified mechanic and had worked on FIAT's for 30 years. He said he replaced all gaskets, unsure of valve seals. Thanks for your reply Robert I will look into that.

Thanks,

Michael
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That sounds like valve seals. Exhaust side usually leak more often. The oil accumulates (typically) in the exhaust ports, so it smokes until the oil is gone. When it sits again, the oil leaks again. I had such bad valve seals on one Volvo, that you could watch the oil vaporize off the exhaust manifold as it was seeping out past the manifold gasket. If you have oil crud buildup around the manifold to head junction, it is another potential indicator.
 
Thats exactly what's happening

lookforjoe said:
That sounds like valve seals. Exhaust side usually leak more often. The oil accumulates (typically) in the exhaust ports, so it smokes until the oil is gone. When it sits again, the oil leaks again. I had such bad valve seals on one Volvo, that you could watch the oil vaporize off the exhaust manifold as it was seeping out past the manifold gasket. If you have oil crud buildup around the manifold to head junction, it is another potential indicator.
Click to expand...

After I got the carb and intake manifold off, I could see where the oil was leaking from and collecting on the manifold to head junction, and leaking down to the exhaust.
 
From the cam box

lookforjoe said:
So, it was external? Cam box? That's definitely a relief!
Click to expand...


From the cam box...best I can tell (pretty certain by the looks of it). I haven't opened it up yet, hopefully I will this week, if the weather allows. I took the week off to work on the X, but so far it's rained two days. :(

Got to put the intake manifold back on and got the new carb (34 DAT) on. Tomorrow I hope to fill it back up with coolent and fire it up. That is if I got the carb connections right!
 
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